Scaling An Office of CFO SaaS Software Powerhouse with AI, Acquisitions & Finance Innovation - Elias Apel
In this episode Host Paul Barnhurst (aka The FP&A Guy) sits down with Elias Apel, the CEO of Lucanet, to explore the evolving landscape of financial planning and analysis. From transforming the Office of the CFO with AI to driving strategic acquisitions, Elias shares how he’s leading Lucanet through hypergrowth and innovation while staying grounded in customer-centric leadership.
Elias Apel is the CEO of Lucanet, a global provider of “Office of the CFO” software solutions for enterprises and SMEs. Founded in 1999, Lucanet offers tools for financial planning, consolidation, ESG reporting, tax compliance, and treasury management. The company supports nearly 6,000 customers in over 50 countries, with offices across Germany, Europe, the UK, Asia, and North America. Elias previously served as Lucanet’s CFO and VP of International Go-to-Market. He is also the co-founder of Argonas Corporate Finance Advisors, specializing in complex M&A and financing transactions.
Expect to Learn:
What makes FP&A truly impactful and strategic
How to build trust across finance functions
Leveraging AI to boost financial operations
Transitioning from advisor to successful CEO
Integrating data analytics under finance leadership
Strategy behind Lucanet’s acquisition of Causal
Here are a few relevant quotes from the episode:
"Communication is the most important soft skill for any finance business partner."
"Data analytics is the number one technical skill FP&A professionals should master today."
"A modern CFO needs to be commercially minded, not just financially accurate."
Elias Apel shares valuable knowledge on leading through transformation, leveraging AI, and redefining the role of the CFO. He emphasizes the importance of trust, data-driven decision-making, and staying customer-focused. Whether you're in FP&A or executive leadership, his journey offers inspiration for building an agile, future-ready finance team.
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In Today’s Episode
[01:51] - Introduction to the Episode
[03:34] - Defining Great FP&A
[09:18] - From M&A Advisor to CEO
[14:49] - Shifting from Operator to Strategic Leader
[19:31] - Why Roles Beyond Finance Matter
[25:36] - Embedding Data to Empower Finance Teams
[27:26] - The Evolving Role of the CFO
[35:51] - The Thinking Behind Lucanet’s M&A Strategy
[47:31] - Top Technical Skill for FP&A Professionals
[54:01] - Final Thoughts and Career Advice
Full Show Transcript
[00:01:51] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Hello everyone! Welcome to FP&A tomorrow where we delve into the world of financial planning and analysis, examining its current state and future prospects. I'm your host, Paul Barnhorst, aka The FP&A Guy, and I'll be guiding you through the evolving landscape of FP&A . Each week, we're joined by thought leaders, industry experts, and practitioners who share their insights and experiences, helping us navigate today's complexities and tomorrow's uncertainties. Whether you're a seasoned professional or just starting your journey in FP&A , this show has something for everyone. This week, I'm thrilled to welcome Elias Apel to the show. Elias, welcome to the show.
[00:02:33] Guest: Elias Apel: Thank you for having me, Paul.
[00:02:35] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, very excited to get to chat with you today. And we get to talk a little bit about Luke and FP&A . So let me give it a little bit of background for Elias, and then we'll jump into our first questions. Elias has, you know, a vast amount of experience in corporate finance and software solutions. Today he is serving as the CEO at LLucanet. He oversees the company's global operations and growth. Prior to Lucanet, he founded Corporate Finance Advisors, where he led MNA and financing transactions. He has a background in financial analysis and business administration. He's held various key roles such as chairman of the Executive Board Group, CFO, VP of International Go to Market as well as channel and more. He has a diverse skill set expertise that have helped contribute to his success in leading and growing companies in the finance and technology sectors. And so, again, thrilled to have you. The first question we'd like to ask everybody, and I'm curious to hear what you have to say. What does great FP&A look like? If you had to describe Great FP&A , what would that be?
[00:03:39] Guest: Elias Apel: That's a good one. It's a good starting question. I would say, and of course, I'm a bit biased with how I would consider it or how would I describe it. Right? I think it starts with most definitely a very well connection of FP&A within the business or across all the different functions, and also technical connectivity within the application layer to all the relevant systems to collect data from. It then continues with seamless integration, which means from my personal experience and also from what I witnessed here at Lucanet, but also with most of our customers, making sure that your operational assumptions that you make flow through to your PNL balance sheet cash flow. It then continues with an intuitive user experience in when I. When I speak about intuitive user experience, I mean by that offering a possibility so that others non-financial users non-finance people can contribute to a great plan, and that is enabled and empowered by the easy and intuitive usage, and then also strong cross-functional cross-departmental collaboration aligning financial goals with business strategies.
[00:04:53] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Refugees. Yeah, I love that part about, you know, aligning the strategy and business goals and obviously being able to access all your data. It helps a lot with FP&A . If you can't easily use your data, it creates a lot of challenges. But I'd love can you share maybe an example where you've seen great FP&A that has helped you as a business leader, where you know either an insight or something, where you're like, wow, that was really beneficial.
[00:05:16] Guest: Elias Apel: I remember like roughly five years ago when Lucanet had embarked on the whole SaaS and cloud transformation. I mean, we've done that. We've sold SaaS and cloud before, but when we really went all in on cloud and SaaS, we started to actually simulate how Lucanet it would look like as a SaaS company. And we wanted to accelerate and make sure that we make the right choices, and we want to understand the impact, and also not only from a business point of view, but also from a financial profile point of view of the SaaS and cloud transformation. And that was something we started to simulate. And that was a fantastic experience because we could bring together all the different functions, whether it was our product teams and or the onboarding cloud onboarding teams, but also sales and customer success, and make sure that we reflect in that simulation all the different aspects of how a customer journey could look like in a SaaS context, and simulating that, and then also wrapping your head around how do very smart and customer centric bundling and pricing could look like to increase value for the customer, but also make sure that we can have a healthy also profile as Lucanet. It was a very interesting exercise and and I remember back then how impressed I was by that collaboration, cross-functional Cross-departmental collaboration that took place at Lucanet.
[00:06:40] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And that's obviously a big project. Whenever you make that total switch of your business model, everything going to SaaS subscription. Yeah. All right. I think it's something pretty much every tech company has now gone through, or most of them have. But it's quite a journey. And so that's great. You you saw that collaboration and that real working together. Because without that collaboration FP&A falls apart.
[00:07:03] Guest: Elias Apel: Absolutely. 100% agree.
[00:07:06] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I'd love to know. Before joining Lucanet, you spent nearly seven years at Argonne as corporate finance advisors. How did you come to start that business? Maybe talk a little bit about that experience.
[00:07:17] Guest: Elias Apel: I mean, I've been always very, very passionate about finance, and I started my professional career in corporate finance advisory, mergers and acquisition, debt financing. And I decided back in 2010, 2011 to carve out of the previous company I was working for with a group of colleagues, and we founded Argonne as Corporate Finance because we figured that there's a way or there's an opportunity to position us very industry agnostic, but with a very clear focus on highly complex transaction structures. So back then, we saw our kind of competitive edge in offering M&A expertise alongside financing expertise, but also advising customers in a very long term throughout multiple transactions and and events, transformational events. And we were able to establish really long term customer relationships back then with, for example, automotive suppliers, machinery suppliers, but also real estate companies, also tech businesses and advise them over very long period of time in all these aspects of M&A, financing, etc. and actually through that role and through that responsibility back then and the trust of my customers, I was also able to implement Gluconate back then for the very first time for those customers. And I saw firsthand the massive impact and the value that was created by that solution. So that was my first touch point also with Lucanet back then.
[00:08:53] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Great. No, thank you for sharing. And I'm curious, was there maybe a a favorite transaction you worked on or experience from those seven years that you could share? Like is there one that really kind of stands out as you look back?
[00:09:06] Guest: Elias Apel: I think that it's really hard to pick out a single one, but I must say that I really enjoyed the long term collaboration with those customers. So I really I wasn't a big fan. That was also one of the reasons, by the way, why I moved away from M&A at some point, because I always, I was always sad about actually leaving a situation and after, let's say, closing a transaction and then let the business handle with the rest, so to say, and, and me taking on the next challenge. So I really enjoyed working with customers over multiple years and really become part of that journey and also witness how that business evolves, for example, by acquiring another business, integrating that business, then doing a refinancing again, expanding, investing in growth, doing maybe another acquisition, or also sometimes maybe carving out a non-core business. So that is the kind of what I really enjoyed. And this is luckily also what I can now witness firsthand at Lucanet that I was able to witness firsthand at Lucanet over the last couple of years and even beyond right, to stay on board and witness how things are evolving over time. That was kind of what I enjoyed the most.
[00:10:18] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, it sounds like you always wanted to be there for the long, the long term to see things and see those changes and how they impact versus, you know, the typical consulting or transaction business you get in. Exactly. Your work. You wave to them on your way out and you go to your next job, so to speak. Yeah.
[00:10:34] Guest: Elias Apel: Yeah, exactly.
[00:10:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Oh, that's great that you had that opportunity to be more of that long term and build those relationships. How has that helped you as CEO kind of, you know, advising those clients and building those long term relationships. How have you brought that with you to Lucanet?
[00:10:50] Guest: Elias Apel: I mean, my customers back then were always in some state of transformation. And I witnessed that those customers who had a very clear, let's say, target state in mind and executed in that direction were the most successful ones, the ones that acted to opportunistically and also pivoted back and forth were the ones struggling. And that is something that at Lucanet it plays a very important role. We have a very, very clear target in mind. We have a very well articulated long term strategy that we are executing on, and especially in the buy and build strategy, you never actually know what's going to happen and whether you will be successful finding exactly what you what you need, for example, in terms of targets, but also in terms of the markets that you're exploring and then potentially entering. So it's a really interesting journey. It's a dynamic journey, but what if you have a clear target in mind and very well articulated long term goals? It really helps you to keep track. And also ultimately you. I strongly believe that you will be more successful.
[00:11:57] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I really, like you said, the long term goal and executing toward that. We've seen something where companies just pivot, pivot, pivot, all opportunistic. And you're going to have a wrong opportunity and things aren't going to look so good when that happens. So I think there's some real value in having that long term vision, ability to execute. And obviously small pivots and changes always have to happen.
[00:12:19] Guest: Elias Apel: But of course yeah.
[00:12:21] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Having that clear strategy, you know I've seen it in my career. So I appreciate that. So you've been CEO of Lucanet I think it's for about a year and a half. Yeah. Right. So what's it been like so far being CEO? I know you were group CFO and had several other roles in the company. So has it been what you expected? Maybe just talk a little bit about the experience so far?
[00:12:41] Guest: Elias Apel: I mean, it hasn't been an amazing experience. Also humbling one to take care of or to take over the responsibility of now around 900 employees worldwide, 6000 customers around the globe. And I would say that the most challenging one for me was definitely getting into that mode, that CEO mode, as I climbed the ranks over the years. And I really like to get to be operationally involved. And but this is something that had to change over time. So you're not really working in the system anymore. You're more working at the system and being Lucanet CFOs, CFO, back before transitioning into the CEO role also helped me to understand how this looks like, right. How you can actually take a step back out of the business and then really work at the system. And what also helped a lot was working shoulder to shoulder with my predecessor, Dominic, who, by the way, was also the person who hired me in the first place. So that was a very good, um, collaboration and really helped me also to transition over all these years.
[00:13:51] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I can see going from working in the day to day operations to more working on the business and the higher level strategy would probably be a really hard transition.
[00:14:02] Guest: Elias Apel: Yeah, definitely.
[00:14:04] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I'm sure there are days you're like, I want to go work on the operations.
[00:14:07] Guest: Elias Apel: I mean, you have a reflex, right? If you've been working in the system for a very long time, you know the business. Maybe not inside out, but you know it well enough so that it feels like, damn it, I can actually, I actually know the solution. And I know where to find the answer, and then I could execute on that. But this reflex is something that you really have to hold back, because there are others who are domain experts in their function, and these are the ones that you want to rely on. So long story short, I like being getting into the detail, but only to make the right decisions. I'm not trying it to take over operational responsibilities. Not at all. But just to make the right choices, make the right decisions. Because these decisions, these questions come my way. And then I want to make the right decision at the very end. Yeah.
[00:14:57] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. You know, great point. Make the right decision and then enable the team to implement it. Let them be successful. I think it's one of the hardest lessons we all learn is the first time you're a manager. Like they did it this way and I want it this way. Or I would, you know, make this change. I struggled with that a lot. And I'm like, I can still remember the project where I had to be like, all right, as long as you get it done, I don't care how you do it, because they clearly didn't want to do it my way. As long as you meet the needs of the business partner, this is an area. Doesn't matter. I'll call uncle and, you know, take my hands off it and let you do it. And it was a great employee I hired. I'm really glad I did that versus micromanage it, because it's easy to do. But I like it this way. Yeah.
[00:15:35] Guest: Elias Apel: So Absolutely. That's a very difficult transition.
[00:15:40] Host: Paul Barnhurst: That's why.
[00:15:41] Guest: Elias Apel: I ran.
[00:15:41] Host: Paul Barnhurst: My own business now because I can just do it however I want and don't care what anyone says. Uh, so I'm curious, you started out Lucanet incels, right? And you had a role of head of channel sales development, and then you moved to become CFO. How did that kind of happen, that you came in from sales because you've done a lot of advisory and ran your own business. That's not a usual career path, right? That's not the typical stepping stones, you see. So how did that kind of come about?
[00:16:13] Guest: Elias Apel: That's pretty pretty exotic, I would say. It's fair to point that out. Um, but for me personally, it really didn't really felt like this. I mean, when you're starting a consulting firm or a professional service company like the company I co-founded previous to joining it, you're always in a sales role as well, right? You need to acquire new projects. You need to speak to players in the market, banks and investors, etc. etc. so always, always in a sales mode anyway, so I've felt very confident in that sales responsibility or that sales mode even before joining gluconate. And then during my time in channel and leading our international go to market teams, I became also more or I was very closely involved in articulating the strategic and also commercial direction of gluconate, including our cloud transition, which was absolutely crucial to transition, then again into the CFO role, because then I became the commercial CFO that also gluconate needed that can translate from the commercial operations to finance what is happening. How can we finance that? How can we measure certain things? And we also, by the way, I also then established, for example, data analytics as a function within gluconate that didn't exist before in the finance function so that we could bridge, so to say, operations and financing as well. And I started to develop Lucanet finance organization to really become a business partner across our organization. So I would say that having worked in the system and understanding how we sell, how our partners work, how our delivery works, allowed me then to make the right choices for the system.
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[00:19:31] Guest: Elias Apel: I like that. I like the system's thinking and it makes a lot of sense. The cell's role. Finance allows you to see both those sides, and the more you know about a business, the more you've been in different roles, the easier it is to understand and make sure you're making good decisions, right? If you don't, the less you know about a business, the easier it is to have a blind spot. Doesn't mean you have to know everything exactly and be in all the weeds. But a broad experience is really helpful. Like, I could guarantee if I went back into an FP&A role tomorrow, I would be better for having run my own business for three years, having to do sales and marketing and you know, all the things I do today and talking to all those people, I'm like, I would know more and make different decisions than I did before, so I can see where that's really helpful. And I would imagine both the sales and the finance has been incredibly helpful as the CEO.
[00:20:24] Guest: Elias Apel: Yeah, I still love doing sales. I mean, I like that also during my time as CFO. Just yesterday, I was able to meet a CFO, one of our existing customers, and understand the struggles that they have and also the difficulties they are facing in their business transformation, which has nothing to do with Lucanet in the first place, but then translating those business requirements again into how can we address that potentially with expanding with Lucanet and using more of the Lucanet solution platform to become more effective and automate processes, etc.? That's a very interesting conversation. And so I'm I love to get into that mode, and I might not close the deal immediately, but at least I'm getting an understanding of what our go to market teams are facing every day in their conversations. So I really enjoy that. And staying in touch with the customers for me is absolutely, absolutely crucial and one of the top priorities that I have.
[00:21:23] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Now that's fabulous, I think that's great that you have that I think, you know, any CEO you have to be in touch with the customers. I think even as a CFO, it's great if you get out and meet the customers. It's just any time you can start to understand and see what the customer is going through, you make better decisions.
[00:21:39] Guest: Elias Apel: 100%. Yeah.
[00:21:40] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And so you mentioned something. I want to go back just a little bit because I think this is interesting. You mentioned when you were a CFO, you created a data analytics group and put it under finance. And I've asked this question before, you know, obviously there's different opinions. Are you of the belief that typically in companies today it makes sense to have, you know, data analytics in the finance group or somewhere else in the business? Or how do you think about that? Because there's been a lot of debate. And finance plays a critical role around data, whether the data analyst group sits in finance or not. So I'd be curious your thoughts on that, that piece.
[00:22:13] Guest: Elias Apel: I think there's not this one way so to say that single truth. Right. I think what I witnessed when I was, when I took over the CFO responsibility at Lucanet, and what I witnessed is Witnesses that our older functions started to build up somehow. Data analytics responsibilities within their team. The problem, the problem we face back then was that the systems we used were still pretty siloed. So we just started at that around that time to implement, for example, Salesforce as a global CRM tool. Previous to that, we had also a more disconnected CRM architecture. And then following Salesforce, we had HubSpot for marketing automation, etc.. So long story short, what I'm trying to make is we came from a world where where every function has had its own tool and then started to to create dashboards or measure KPIs and also report on them. But for me, what was really missing was that end to end visibility throughout the whole customer journey. And that is where when I when I decide, okay, before we now start to build these silos from an analytical point of view and also from a reporting point of view, I rather centralize it. So I took these talented individuals that were already within our organization and were, for example, already working in the people organization or in the marketing organization.
[00:23:38] Guest: Elias Apel: And I try to bring them all together and then hire even more to make sure that for every function there is a business partner, a data business partner, so to say. And this is how I established data analytics or data as a as a function at Econet. And from that point onwards, we were really able to report end to end throughout all the different solutions we were using and have a more unified, more holistic view on the business. So it it might be a very specific situation, because I've also seen other customers who are very successful and, and, and also other software companies very successful in decentralizing these responsibilities throughout the organization. But again, I think for us it was the right choice. But I don't know whether we will always stay like this. I think the more mature our organization becomes and the more mature also our enterprise application architecture becomes, we will be more connected. It will be all end to end. So it then it won't maybe make such a big difference anymore where the actual data person sits. But at the moment we are still sticking to that, um, setup and we're very happy with that.
[00:24:50] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I'm glad it's working well, and I think I, like you said, there's no one right solution. I think for me, the big thing I've seen is anytime finance as an organization is making sure they're heavily involved in data. It that's beneficial. But, you know, as far as how you have it set up, there's lots of different paths that can be successful depending on your needs. It's that it's that focus and having that end to end understanding. So you don't have silos and data that's important. We've all been there. How many have been in a meeting where five different numbers come up for what your CCaC is and you're like, okay. How'd you calculate it? And the whole meeting turns out into a well, how did you come up with that number instead of being beneficial of, you know, the point of the meeting.
[00:25:36] Guest: Elias Apel: But but, Paul, what I would really recommend every finance leader who's struggling with the finance organization to become real business partners is to actually consider doing this, because by embedding data analytics or data as a function in the finance team, you kind of boost that holistic visibility on how the business works and how effective the business is in different throughout different functions. So that is creating so much visibility and so much transparency in the finance function, that the team also is being educated on what to consider as a business partner and what to focus on as well. So I think it's a very good starting point. If a finance function wants to step up as a more holistic business partner.
[00:26:22] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I totally agree. And you know, I had a guest one time comment that he's like and he'd work small companies. Like, you could tell if you have a more modern CFO by how they think about data. And often they'll bring data under Finance's purview. Not always, but they're going to be intimately involved, which I think is what you're getting at is key. You have to with how important data is today to be successful as a CFO, you have to be intimately involved in data. You have to own it. Know that there's different structures that can work, but you really need to make sure you understand and that it's aligned with the company that you're really digging into it there. Yeah. So I want to ask a question . I watched the video that you guys did where you and in the video you were speaking, talking about kind of Lucanet, I think, a little bit of unveiling a new logo. And one of the things you mentioned that stuck out to me, you mentioned nothing is evolving faster than the role of the CFO Office, you know, in companies. So maybe talk a little bit about that. What did you mean when you say that? Why do you think that.
[00:27:26] Guest: Elias Apel: The transition of the office of the CFO and the CFO role is nothing new? And I could imagine that CFOs who listened to all these opinions these days probably are starting to get annoyed around the bus that is being made about their roles constantly changing. I would say that it all started. This transition started probably in early 2000, when technological advancements really flooded the finance functions, and businesses had to understand the processes they relied on and the systems and tools that they were using, if they were using any. But also, for example, the business models that they were pursuing will not be the ones that they can rely on for the future. So it was kind of a disruptive moment, I'd say like 20, 25 years ago, where lots of finance organizations had to really step up and think about, okay, what is that impact for my for my responsibility, for my space of responsibility? Since then, technological advancement has started to accelerate. And that's what I mean with becoming or changing even faster that the CFO is continuously under pressure to innovate and automate.
[00:28:40] Guest: Elias Apel: Probably the first one to adopt the new stuffthat is that is coming up and the new functionalities that are being offered and cloud solutions that are popping up and while still providing strategic leadership not only for the finance function itself, but also beyond the finance function. So now with AI, we are again entering an era where CFO are expected to leverage that first. So I always get the impression that everyone is Lucanet the CFO at the finance function. But you guys, you should start actually start using it and to automate to create better insights, accelerate decision making and also yeah level up the productivity throughout the business. So that's what I meant with accelerating that. This technical transition is becoming faster and faster. And it's really at Lucanet that we really are in the midst of all this in our own organization, but it's also our product as we are shipping or as we also started last year to ship our first AI functionalities on our platform. So it's exciting. Those are exciting times, but also challenging times.
[00:29:50] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Makes a lot of sense. The technical changes that are happening, acceleration put a lot of stress on the office of the CFO on finance, and one approving all the different departments that want, you know, these different products and figuring it out themselves and all that goes with that, that whole transition. So I'm curious, you mentioned I, you know, starting to put AI in your products. How does Lucanet think about I, you know. How are you thinking about that journey is I think everybody's trying to figure out the different use cases and how they do it. So how do you think about it, maybe as a company and for your customers?
[00:30:25] Guest: Elias Apel: Yeah. So for us, AI is not a I mean, there are two perspectives, right? The one is what we are doing in our product offering. And the other one is what the other side is, what we're doing internally. Maybe I start with what we're doing internally. We've been one of the, I would say, early adopters of AI throughout our organization, especially in R&D. We started very early, for example, to roll up, roll out Git Hub Copilot throughout our R&D organization. And today there's already more than 10% or around 10% at the moment of our code is being generated by AI already. So we're really trying to stay, so to say, and always cutting edge when it comes to applying the newest functionalities there. Then we are also thinking about whether we thought about okay, let's roll out copilot. Microsoft copilot. For the organization to really, first and foremost create an attention or an awareness for the value that can be created throughout any function. And the outcome is really impressive, impressive. And of course, it's heterogeneous as well. So there are some teams who are starting very fast to adopt it and to really accelerate increased productivity. Others take a little bit longer, but that's okay. It will take time. But I'm pretty sure that in a year's time we will have a massive adoption within our organization.
[00:31:45] Guest: Elias Apel: And I can't imagine a single individual within our group to not work with AI on a daily basis. On the product side, we really believe that AI is not a product, but it's a functionality. It's a feature. It's something that the customer sometimes doesn't even realize that it's happening or that the AI is involved. And therefore we've shipped last year a series of different AI functionalities across our platform solutions, and we started, for example, with something that might not be the easiest use case to explain, but let me try to explain it a bit so I don't know whether you're familiar with XBRL. The XBRL format. Xbrl is a format to make reports machine readable. So when we talk about efficiencies and reducing bureaucracy, so to say, we are creating reports that, for example, a regulator can read out and audit 100% automatically. So by doing so we allow customers to become compliant with their reports, whether it's under ECF regulation or ESG or any tax and create a report that for the regulator again is machine readable and easy to digest and to audit. We've reduced in the past. So for an average report of, I don't know, 100 to 300 a day.
[00:33:10] Guest: Elias Apel: 100 to 300 pages. It was probably around 1 to 3 days of manual work to tag the process. We are now down to minutes where we do it with AI, but it's running in the background, so there's no real, let's say, manual interaction with the AI. It's just happening like this, right? The second thing that we've done is we've launched a copilot on our platform, which allows, for example, CFOs who are not daily users of our platform, to simply query the database and ask for information such as, um, how did my gross margin develop over the last three years for this very specific product? And if this data is available, it creates an answer. It creates a table. It gives you all the insights that you need, whether you're sitting on a train or, uh, in maybe in a board meeting or so. So having this easy accessibility of the data that is already being stored in Lucanet is, um, a big, big new value creating functionality on our platform. So again, I could continue like this because there's so many things that we are planning, but that gives you an idea of how we are thinking and what we are planning to do as well.
[00:34:19] Host: Paul Barnhurst: FP&A guy here today, I'm super excited to talk to you about the FP&A hub community, the online community that you can go to to get answers. Early in my career, I wish I had a place I could have gone to where I didn't have to talk to somebody in the company, go to my boss again, or Google that I knew I could get answers from. That's what you can get at thefpahub.com. You can make friends, you can learn from others, you can attend events, put discussions and posts out there. You don't have to worry about all the selling and cheat sheets and stuff you get on LinkedIn. This is real conversations by real FP&A professionals. We have over 100 people in the community and it's absolutely free. That's the best thing. So please go ahead and join today thefpahub.com you can join for free at thefpahub.com and the FPA guy looks forward to seeing you in this free community. Join today.
[00:35:23] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thank you. I appreciate that. You know, it's exciting. I love the example of the reporting and saving hours where people don't even realize it's I you know, there are areas where, as you said, it can just run in the background and it's there to make our lives easier. And then I'm mentioning that every employee should be using it. I mean, that's the key is it's human humans with AI. And then there are also areas where it's just AI in the background. And that combination can make us a lot more efficient. So I want to shift gears here just a little bit. You know, during your time at Lucanet, you've been involved in several acquisitions. I know you came from kind of an M&A background. You know, what's been the reasoning behind expanding your product offering through acquisitions? What's been kind of the focus there?
[00:36:05] Guest: Elias Apel: Maybe also here. Instead, we probably provided the best solution in that space or in that category, but we were also not offering anything beyond that. So first, we started with some carefully selected partnerships to add additional solutions to our offering, and then kind of become a reseller distributor for those products and also introduce our customers to those products and then bundle them with our solution. We realized quite fast that this works very well, and that our go to market motion and our credibility in finance, our global customer access, and our unique value proposition allowed us to become a platform for buy and build our core values. I think I mentioned that in the previous conversations that we had probably a few times are out of the box software, out of the box functionalities, easy to use software and easy to use customer experience and very fast time to value. So quick implementation, fast time to value these three things are absolutely fundamental for us. And believe me, it's not tricky. It's a really tricky thing actually to buy and build. Why are you trying to stay true to these core values. The thing is that if you would just expand into spaces because your competition is doing it, you won't succeed. I'm pretty sure about that. Your customers, they must want you to win, and they will only do so if you found out a way to do things better.
[00:37:42] Guest: Elias Apel: So you have to have a real right to win, to expand beyond what made you successful in the past. And we knew that if we would identify businesses, that would add additional business critical finance solutions to our existing offering, we call them jobs to be done in the office of the CFO and match these core values that I mentioned out of the box. Easy to use, fast time to value that combination. With that combination, we could become an office of the CFO powerhouse for the mid-market and our customers and partners. They really backed us up. And I also experienced being the CFO, being the buyer's persona. And uh, the so to say, the ambassador within our organization that we could as a customer also benefit from the solutions that we were using ourselves. So long story short, we found or very carefully selected M&A targets now and thinking it backwards from the customer, um, requirements and of course, remaining laser focused on the office of the CFO. But we also just have to mention that also added organic growth on top of that. So we also delivered self-developed solutions with a clear right to win besides the acquisitions that we did.
[00:38:59] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Sure. Yeah. The combination of both the build and the bot and the buy. So one of those acquisitions you did, if I can speak to you this morning, one of the acquisitions you did late last year was causal. Right. And for a planning platform. So I'm curious as to why. Let's start there. What made you decide to, you know, select them as your your tool that you wanted in your platform.
[00:39:23] Guest: Elias Apel: Yeah. So we started I mean, the fact that we wanted to add to that, we wanted to think about how can we add operational planning. Strategic planning, however you want to call it to our platform is not a new thing. It's something that gluconate has been Lucanet that was discussed within Lucanet for decades already. Right. And in the past, like 15, 20 years ago, we started doing the first partnerships. But we already realized the values that we represented were not echoed by the partner solutions. So to say that we try to offer our customers. So it didn't felt like a natural thing for our customers to say, okay, let's take that planning solution on top of it and then have that holistic or let's say, unified solution in place. Um, so we started like 2 or 3 years ago, a very well structured process. And, you know, the individual who's also working closely with me, Gabriel, here on that. And we screened more than 60 different businesses around the globe because we were willing to not to do no deal rather than any deal if you understand where I'm coming from, right? We said that if we won't find that one solution that perfectly matches our value proposition, and that then will translate into a right to win into that space globally, we rather don't do it and focus on the things that we are offering that we were already offering on the platform.
[00:40:56] Guest: Elias Apel: So when we met Timo and Lucanets, the founder of causal, for the very first time, and we saw their product, we knew that it's a fit right away, especially because of everything we saw previous to causal, and we kind of discovered our core values within their solution. So with causal, we bought not only best in class technology, we bought third generation cloud native excellence. And we were able to check all these value boxes. And as we speak now the platform integration is in progress. I've seen it already last week or another week before in our internal launch event, and we will go live for our customers early March, which is actually next week, next two weeks with Xpn, which is then causal on the cloud platform. And I'm really proud of the team. They've done a fantastic job, and it's really impressive how they delivered on that vision in record time.
[00:41:53] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, no that's great. I appreciate you sharing. And you know, trying something that really aligns with your out of box quick implementation. You know, FP&A software obviously has an implementation cycle, and it can vary from a few weeks to a really long time depending on the software and needs and exactly and challenges. So I can see where, you know, reviewing 60 tools to find that one that makes sense. You know, it kind of leads to another question, causal, especially at the time you bought him, had really focused on a product growth led strategy, had a lot of smaller customers on the platform. So, you know, how are you ensuring that the platform can handle, whether from a calculation or collaboration, the needs of your mid market customers because that's, you know, where you're at is a little more upscale than where they were at. So how has that been a concern or how are you thinking about that?
[00:42:48] Guest: Elias Apel: No, there has never been a real concern. Our search focused first and foremost on the right technology and the right solution, not whether or not there is a customer base already in place or anything like that. Um, we really focused on that value proposition, that second to none value proposition that we wanted to add for all our customers. And look, and it has historically always been agnostic, fully agnostic, when it came not only to industries but also to, let's say, growth stages or, um, let's say maturity of an organization we already started decades ago to serve fast growing scale ups, um, and delivered our consolidation and financial planning solution to them. And they have become one of our biggest customers these days, right. They became stock listed global champions in their space, whether it is, for example, I don't know, delivery or e-commerce or whatever, food delivery, for example. So long story short, we were used to partner with start ups and scale ups, and then become their partner of choice over decades to serve their needs. There are also changing needs, and that's why we felt very comfortable actually seeing that causal had also been able to deliver to these early stage customers very successfully. But causal also delivered very successfully to mid market customers. So in the past where they pivoted more to a P&G product led growth approach, they were actually targeting the mid market. And so there is a there is already a proof point there also for mid market readiness and during the due diligence process and during the conversations that we had with the team, we were of course intensively looking into that. So we brought along not only experts from the space, but also partners, our own partners and our own customers. And maybe a very interesting, funny anecdote.
[00:44:47] Guest: Elias Apel: During the due diligence, we brought along one very trusted customer, actually, that was able to see the product and also test it around. And the CFO reached out to me and said, you know, guys, I know it's highly confidential. I can't do anything at the moment, but would you be mad if I would order it right now? Like, I'm just about to create my budget for next year, and that's exactly what I was looking for. Over the last few years. So would you bother if I just order it right now? So we had already had the first mid-market customer win, so to say, during the whole process. And I think that underpins also why we are so confident that this is a solution that our customers are looking for. And right now we're in the midst of market preparation and our partners are already onboarded. And, um, the echo that we get and the feedback that we get is absolutely amazing. But we also know that we are not done yet. So we have to work on a couple of items that we already identified during the due diligence process and during the acquisition, which is, for example, level up the high performance calculation engine, which is already being delivered in March and basically next, next month. The data integration with our consolidation and financial planning solution. You know that the operational assumptions really flow through to your cash flow fully, automatically. We have other enhancements planned on the roadmap, including workflow functionalities. Multi-currency, flexible interest, flexible rates, unbalanced hierarchies to enable more seamless reports for import story from CFP or consolidation and planning solution. So we're not stopping there. There's more to come and more to expect.
[00:46:32] Host: Paul Barnhurst: But exciting. Knowthat's great. And it's always good to get the proof from the customer. That's a great story. I appreciate you sharing that one. Right. That's what everybody wants before the deal's closed. Hey, can I can I go buy this? It's kind of like, well, yeah. Yeah, we'll we'll figure that out.
[00:46:47] Guest: Elias Apel: By the way, that's something we've done with all the add ons that we already saw a certain traction or interest previous to the actual acquisition. So that was with Amana. When we started in disclosure management or text compliance, there was already a certain overlap with our customer base also in banking and cash management and now with XP& A so we see this is kind of something that we must witness otherwise or we must see along the way. Otherwise we would not be confident enough to do such an acquisition. Yeah.
[00:47:19] Host: Paul Barnhurst: That makes a lot of sense. So we're going to move into this kind of a standard section where we ask some general questions about FP&A of all our guests. Yeah. So the first one here, if you had to pick one, what is the number one technical skill that FP professionals need that they should master.
[00:47:38] Guest: Elias Apel: I would say and we actually discussed that earlier. It's I think proficiency in data analytics because that's absolutely crucial in informed decision making and moving throughout the different business functions of a business. Yeah.
[00:47:53] Host: Paul Barnhurst: We definitely get that answer. You know, as one of them and it's so important to understand data and analytics. Yeah I understand that one. What about on the soft side. That kind of softer human skill, that non-technical skill that we need.
[00:48:07] Guest: Elias Apel: I think again, coming from that high level, that necessity of high level of cross-functional work. I think effective communication is absolutely essential.
[00:48:18] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. I mean, you have to be able to communicate if you're going to be a business partner. Hundred percent sense. Yeah. And then what if there is one thing that you would like to see FP&A focus more on, or that you think FP&A can get better at in general from your experience, what is that?
[00:48:35] Guest: Elias Apel: I think I would start with saying predictive analytics and scenario planning. That's an important thing. That's an important topic. That's something I would love to actually do more and see more. And we've been quite early in the market with a predictive analytics solution already years ago, five years ago. But we realized back then that the market wasn't ready yet. So I think that right now it's really starting to become more and more mature. And I'd really like to see that being embraced more intensively by the FP&A function. Secondly, becoming more commercial is, I think, a very important is something I would like to see more. I would also expect that as a CFO from my organization and to anticipate market changes faster and earlier, especially in those times right now where things are moving pretty fast and sometimes unpredictable, but being able to anticipate that, simulate the impact and thus becoming again the business partner for your organization is absolutely crucial. So I would say these are the top things.
[00:49:47] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thank you. I appreciate that. Those are all really good ones. So now we're going to move into a get to know you section where I get to ask a little more kind of personal questions. So our audience gets to know you a little bit. What do you like to do in your spare time? Do you have a favorite hobby or passion when you're not, uh, working on Lucanet.
[00:50:04] Guest: Elias Apel: I started to cycle to build up a passion for cycling during Covid, but more generally, I really love being active and enjoying the nature, especially with my two kids.
[00:50:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, always fun to get out with the kids. I have a daughter and I love to go hiking when I can get her to go.
[00:50:23] Guest: Elias Apel: Yeah, exactly, exactly. I mean, I live here in Munich, in beautiful Bavaria, so it's pretty close to nature. Um, we can go to the mountains. There are many lakes, so I really enjoy that. If I have the time to go.
[00:50:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Great. Yeah, it's. It's probably finding the time to get out sometimes. It's college. Yes. I live right next to the mountains and sometimes I'm like, wait, I don't get out there enough, so I get it. When you were a kid, what did you want to be when you grew up? What did you think you'd be doing when you were younger? I think you were a child.
[00:50:54] Guest: Elias Apel: If I remember correctly. I think the first thing that comes up to my mind, I don't know what the right expression is in English, but I think it's a jungle explorer or jungle forest explorer. I was always fascinated by the jungle. I've never been to the jungle, actually, I've never been to a jungle in my I mean, I've been to something that looked like a jungle, but it's probably not the type of jungle I imagined when I was a kid. But, uh, I always wanted to discover new things, and I was doing it at really small scale in my parents' garden like that. But yeah, that I think that's really the, the, the single most important vision that I had when I thought about my professional future back then becoming a jungle explorer.
[00:51:44] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I like it, I hadn't thought of that, but I can now picture it. The hat. We'll get you a whip. You're out in the. You're out in the Amazon.
[00:51:51] Guest: Elias Apel: I think it was not so much Paul about the outfit back then. It was more about like collecting animals I liked. I really liked also doing that when I was a kid. So just grabbing them and collecting them and then observing how they behave and what they're doing and whether I could feed them or not. So I was I wasn't shying away from getting in contact with animals at any point in time.
[00:52:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I love it. Well, thank you for sharing that one. We're going to do one more kind of job related. And this is so let's say today you could switch jobs with any person in the world for one week. Who are you going to switch jobs with?
[00:52:32] Guest: Elias Apel: I would say I mean, I like I always like a good challenge and I'm a big soccer fan and becoming coach of my hometown soccer team. Sport Club Freiburg, which is in the Black Forest in Germany, would probably be a dream come true. Becoming true, I believe. I really believe, and my teams know that managing a high performing SaaS company is pretty similar to a sports team, and with the only difference, and that is the challenge. Or that's something I would like to witness is that your actions, your every, every decision that you make becomes visible immediately or at latest within 90 minutes. And I really love the concept of developing bold, fast paced, high impact strategies. Also in a business context. And soccer could be a very interesting way to get to really get challenged whether I have that skill set.
[00:53:34] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, exactly that 90 minutes. You know, when you walk off the pitch like that decision didn't work or that worked, or what would you do differently? You get quicker feedback than some decisions you make, like buying, you know, buying causal. You're not going to know in 90s or 90 days if it's, you know, really been successful, it's going to take quite a bit of time. So that's a good example. I like that, you know, so as we wrap up any last kind of words you want to say about, you know, FP&A or anything you want to share with our audience that we haven't talked about.
[00:54:10] Guest: Elias Apel: I mean, when I think about this function, the FP&A function, I really think about it. I think that you should always start building trust with your organization. That's absolutely key. And then I think the processes really end to end. How does the operating assumption or the assumption that is being made in some in one part of the business impacting your PNL and then impacting also your cash flow in many cases, and I've witnessed that so many times during my time as a corporate finance advisor, but also serving businesses here at gluconate that many companies learn that too late and understand it too little. And that is something I would really recommend everyone to get to, to put that on top of the list, so to say. And then also make smart tool choices, think really and challenge the vendors. I really love being challenged also at Gluconate, and I think it's fair for a prospect to expect to see everything live in the tool, and you will be surprised that only a few can actually do that. And that's why we love what we are doing, because everything, or I couldn't imagine anything. If we can't show it in the tool, it probably doesn't work or doesn't exist in gluconate. Sure. Right. So and that applies, by the way, also to causal or to the other add ons. We've done that. This is something where we really try to differentiate ourselves. So I would recommend everyone to really expect a lot from a vendor. And then we didn't speak about AI today a little bit. We could speak a lot longer about that topic, but I really recommend, I really recommend everyone in the FP&A space to never stop learning and to connect with peers and experts and go on conferences or whatever is needed to stay on top of the latest developments, because the the speed is breathtaking and the impact will be absolutely massive. And we already experienced that firsthand at Lucanet Net every day, both internally and also when speaking to our customers and when shipping our solutions.
[00:56:22] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, no thank you. I appreciate that advice and I've really enjoyed chatting with you today. It's been a lot of fun. You know, we'll make sure to put the website for Lucanet on your LinkedIn profile in the show notes. So if anyone wants to reach out, they can. But thank you for carving out some time today and chatting with me. I really enjoyed it. Elias.
[00:56:41] Guest: Elias Apel: Thank you Paul I enjoyed it too and it was fun to be on your show on your podcast here.
[00:56:46] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well thank you.
[00:56:47] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thanks for listening to FP&A tomorrow. If you enjoyed the show, please leave us a five star rating and a review on your podcast platform of choice. This allows us to continue to bring you great guests from around the globe. As a reminder, you can earn CPE credit by going to earmarkcpe.com, downloading the app, taking a short quiz, and getting your CPE certificate to earn continuing education credits for the FPAC certification. Take the quiz on earmark and contact me, the show host for further details.