How Wharton’s FP&A Program Teaches AI and Automation - from real students! Dan Cotoia and Anh Tran
In this episode, host Paul Barnhurst (aka The FP&A Guy) sits down with Dan Cotoia and Anh Tran, two accomplished finance professionals who recently completed the FP&A Certificate Program from Wharton Online in collaboration with Wall Street Prep. They share their reasons for enrolling, how the program supported their career growth, and what aspiring FP&A professionals can expect. From personal career pivots to practical tools and concepts, this conversation offers a clear and relatable look at the value of formal training in today’s finance landscape.
Dan Cotoia is a Senior Finance Director in the pharmaceutical industry with 18+ years of FP&A experience across commercial finance, R&D, and cost accounting. Anh Tran is a finance professional with a background in investment banking and regulatory finance, recently returning to corporate finance after completing the Wharton FP&A Certificate Program.
Expect to Learn:
Why Dan and Anh chose the Wharton FP&A Certificate over other programs
What makes the program stand out, from live interaction to practical content
Key takeaways they applied directly to their jobs
How much time you’ll actually spend on the coursework
How the program supports career transitions and networking
The role of AI and Power Query in modern FP&A training
Here are a few relevant quotes from the episode:
“The AI module helped me see where FP&A is heading. It’s not just Excel anymore.” - Dan Cotoia
“It’s not just about learning concepts, it’s about connecting with others who live FP&A every day.” - Anh Tran
Dan Cotoia and Anh Tran shared honest, practical experiences about completing the Wharton FP&A Certificate Program.Their stories show how structured learning and the right tools can make a real difference in everyday finance work.
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In Today’s Episode
[02:05] - Dan and Anh’s Backgrounds
[06:33] - Defining Great FP&A
[10:31] - Why Anh Chose Wharton
[15:55] - Team Reaction to Dan Upskilling
[17:47] - Cohort and Community Experience
[24:27] - Anh’s Takeaways and Connections
[27:29] - Dan’s Practical Learnings
[31:44] - How Anh Built Her FP&A Network
[38:51] - Favorite Modules and Tools
[50:16] - Key FP&A Skills Today
Full Show Transcript
[00:01:30] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Hello everyone! Welcome to FP&A tomorrow, where we delve into the world of financial planning and analysis, examining its current state and future prospects. I'm your host, Paul Barnhurst, aka the FP&A guy, and I'll be guiding you through the evolving landscape of FP&A. Each week we're joined by thought leaders, industry experts and practitioners who share their insights and experiences helping us navigate today's complexities and tomorrow's uncertainties. Whether you're a seasoned professional or just starting your journey in FP&A , this show has something for everyone. This week, we are thrilled to be joined by Dan and Anh. Dan, Anh, welcome to the show.
[00:02:16] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Hi, Paul. Nice to meet you.
[00:02:18] Guest 2: Anh Tran: Hello, everyone. Hi, Paul. Thank you for having me here today.
[00:02:21] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, really thrilled to have you. So Dan and Anh here with us, and we're going to start by giving you guys the opportunity to introduce yourself. Dan, we'll start with you and then we'll go over to you. Anh, if you just want to tell the audience a little bit about what your background yourself, what you're doing today. That'd be great.
[00:02:38] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Sure. So yeah, like Paul said, my name is Dan Cotoia and I'm a senior finance director for Pharmaceutical Organization. I have been in industry for over 18 years and have worked primarily in FP&A and also primarily in pharmaceuticals. During that time. I have a pretty extensive background in different portions of financial planning and analysis. So I've done commercial finance, I've done R&D, medical affairs, finance, I've done alliance finance, which is a new trend in terms of pharmaceutical companies, co-promoting or different pharmaceutical companies co-promoting the same product and doing the financial reconciliations of those. And then I've also done a stint in cost accounting and really what I would call extremely technical FP&A . And so happy to be here. And thanks.
[00:03:25] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Now I have to laugh when you say I did a stint in cost accounting, I bought a prison.
[00:03:30] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Sure, it was very early in my career. I did it for four years right out of undergrad. And I will tell you this, I'm so fortunate that I did do it, but I'm also so fortunate that I did it back then.
[00:03:41] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Sure. No, I get it. I just couldn't resist the way you said. That kind of made me think of that. And why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself?
[00:03:48] Guest 2: Anh Tran: So I'm Anh I grew up in Hanoi, Vietnam. I went to college at the University of Maine, majored in finance and have since worked for over ten years, mostly in investment banks. Have you heard of Lehman Brothers Morgan Stanley? Briefly at UBS and most recently, Barclays Capital. At these banks, I work first in investment research as a sell side research analyst, and then after that across different areas of finance like product control, which is PNL reporting, financial management reporting, regulatory reporting, and most recently, CCAR, which stands for the Comprehensive Capital Analysis and Review. Basically, it's in the model execution and stress testing area. So this is within the scope of the large bank capital adequacy assessment. You know, through the annual stress testing as mandated by the Federal Reserve. And this is just for banks like with over $1 billion in assets, but actually right out of college, I started in corporate finance in a two year rotational financial training program. You probably heard of Circuit City. So I was at the rotational program for two years in Richmond, Virginia. Headquarter. Then after that, I moved to New York City. I joined Lehman Brothers, now Barclays Capital, as a product control analyst. But I had an interest in investment research. So after two years in product control, then at Lehman Brothers, I took an opportunity to transfer internally into sell side research role for three years. Then I took a few years off to become a stay at home mom and I have two kids. And then after that I went back to work and I joined Morgan Stanley for five years, then Barclays for another five years and worked in those areas, as I mentioned earlier. Thank you for having me today.
[00:05:45] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, very happy to have you. Thanks for sharing a little bit of your background. And yeah, for those who aren't initiated with CCR. I know that's a lot of work. I work for American Express, a bank. I had a lot of friends in the regulatory side dealing with CCR. I actually once applied for a FP&A position with that. I didn't get it, and I think it worked out for the best for me long term.
[00:06:05] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: But I know, and not because.
[00:06:07] Host: Paul Barnhurst: The work wouldn't have been good just for my career as one of those. At the time, I was very disappointed. You know how it is, but it ended up being for the best for me. But I know CCR is a lot of work and very important coming out of the financial crisis.
[00:06:20] Guest 2: Anh Tran: It's in season now is peak now.
[00:06:23] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Prevent, you know, prevent another Lehman Brothers.
[00:06:27] Guest 2: Anh Tran: Yep. So I should be in it.
[00:06:31] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Good deal. Fun. All right. So this is where we like to always start after background is what does great FP&A look like. And Dan we're going to start with you. If you could define what it looks like what is that like?
[00:06:45] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Yeah, sure. I think great FP&A ultimately is being able to identify the trends or the, you know, the variances, the issues at hand, understanding, okay, what what are we seeing, uh, understanding the root cause behind what we're seeing. Right. So why is this happening? But I think really one of the biggest parts of FP&A is then ultimately the actionable insights thereafter. So the so what, if you will, which is, you know, something that we try to work on a lot with my team is we found this. I understand the root cause of it, but what does it mean? How do we go forward with this. And what do we do to either stop what is negative in happening or enhance what the positive benefit of it is? And to me, that's really the crux of FP&A . It's really being able to, um, find these insights and to help drive the business forward. And then the back end of that is ultimately being able to tell that financial story behind that. Right. And I think a lot of times within an organization, it's you're dealing with stakeholders who, you know, don't have that financial acumen to the level that you do. And so you have to be able to synthesize that message. And I think that that's a really critical component of what great FP&A looks like.
[00:07:50] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yep. Got it. Now it makes a lot of sense. Anything you would add to that? And any thoughts on that of what great FP&A looks like?
[00:07:57] Guest 2: Anh Tran: Well, Dan, you covered it all. Um, sure. So it's just one more thing that I want to add is that it's, you know, nowadays it's all about staying ahead of the curve, right? So, um, what I've learned recently is, you know, looking ahead, like the future of FP&A is going to change. Um, so for a great FP&A , it's important to start building automation skills. Um, so you're not left behind. Which means nowadays, to understand how machine learning can improve the planning and forecasting, um, and how to use AI tools, um, that are emerging in this field. So that's, that's the only thing that I wanted to add.
[00:08:39] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I know it's exciting time with AI and some of that you do have, you do have to stay current and be able to use the software and technology to make your job easier and to get more done. If you want time to be a business partner, you have to spend less time cleaning data. You guys have never spent a lot of time cleaning data, right?
[00:08:58] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Yeah, sure.
[00:08:59] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Oh, yeah.
[00:09:00] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Dan's just laughing over there going, uh, yeah. Right.
[00:09:04] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: We still do that a lot, unfortunately.
[00:09:06] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Oh, yeah. No, I think everybody does, you know. I will continue to help more and more of that, but we're still early. The promise and what the vendors are selling and reality haven't aligned yet. And whether they'll ever completely align. Probably not. Just like anything. Right? Vendors always sell the perfect situation of what a tool will do. Then there's reality. I've seen kind of Dan nodding his head. You've never experienced that with any of your software platforms, right?
[00:09:34] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Right. No, they've all been perfect.
[00:09:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Exactly. As one guest I had on one time, he goes, as long as you have an okay ERP or accounting system implementation. He's like, notice I didn't say good because there's no such thing as a good implementation. They're either bad or okay. And I just kind of laughed.
[00:09:52] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: So that's great.
[00:09:53] Host: Paul Barnhurst: We're gonna just so the audience knows, we're going to spend most of the rest of the time talking about the Wharton Certificate of FP&A . So Wharton Online and Wall Street Prep put together a program. I talked a little bit about it on a previous podcast, where I talked about all the different certificates out there. Today we have two guests who have gone through the program, so they're both going to share some of their reasoning, their thoughts to help you. If you're thinking of trying to figure out what program is right for me, we'd love to. For you to hear from some people who actually took the program. So we're going to jump into that now. And the first question I want to ask and we'll start with you here, Ann, what was your main reasoning or what was the thinking behind taking this certificate of FP&A from Wharton, from the Wharton Online?
[00:10:40] Guest 2: Anh Tran: Yeah. So real.
[00:10:41] Guest 2: Anh Tran: The, uh, the first reason was that last year I was looking to transition back into corporate FNA environment after like about a while working in investment bank. Um, so I started looking around for a high quality and well accredited MBA program, you know, to refresh my knowledge, to enhance my knowledge in this area. Um, the course skills and all that. But I wanted to learn in a structured way and, you know, develop the expertise to become a great one. And especially now with the AI technology, um, continuing to evolve. And since before a long time ago, I actually took a traditional self-study, textbook based FP&A program. But I found it, like, less, you know, helpful than I would have liked. So this time, I was looking for a program that offered, like, more than like a typical certificate program. Um, some something that, you know, Emphasized the practical knowledge, um, you know, like from industry executives or then just theory. And because of my experience with the old one, I wanted a program that would have more live interaction with the instructors, uh, those that have, like, deep industry experience. And then the the next thing that I was looking for is that a program that could help me expand my professional network, uh, beyond banking into other industries, all of them, uh, just because I was always in banking and most of my connections is in banking.
[00:12:16] Guest 2: Anh Tran: So that was the top of my mind. So that way I could learn from like a, like, diverse EPA professionals, uh, when I reenter the field and I could grow faster. So when I was searching for the right program, I actually came across a LinkedIn post from my old boss. Uh, and she's like a, like a seasoned finance leader, uh, from leading investment banks, too. And she posted and she says she just earned like an FP&A certificate from the Wharton and Wall Street Prep program. And she was very happy with the course. So I got interested immediately, and I reached out to her and, um, although she was very busy starting a new job and she really, um, very kind and generously spent hours discussing the program with me, and she spoke very highly of it. So after our conversation, I was fully convinced, um, and I felt that this comprehensive program was, you know, right. For me because it sounded like it would provide me with everything that I was looking for in a certificate course. So I decided to take it. And I was pleased to find that, you know, it actually exceeded my original expectations, since it actually provided some more benefits beyond what I had anticipated. Um, like this An interesting conversation that we're having now, which I would never have imagined.
[00:13:43] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well, I'm glad you're you're here, and I know, just so the people know, both our guests. This is their first time on a podcast. So they made me promise I'd be nice. So I can't ask any questions today. Just so the the audience knows. But they're doing great. Thank you for for doing this and for sharing. You know your reasoning. Dan, what about you? What was your reasoning for doing the program?
[00:14:06] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Sure.
[00:14:06] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Yeah. So you know, and covered obviously a lot a lot of it. But for myself, you know, on a personal level, I've always wanted to make sure that as my career has progressed, you know, that I stay on top of industry trends. I don't get complacent in what myself or my teams are doing and responsibilities. And so, um, it felt right for me to start to look for an opportunity to reinforce, uh, some of my, you know, experience over the years. And, you know, when I started to look into the Wharton program specifically. You know, I like the cohort element of it, right? The fact that there would be interaction, uh, with other people, sort of like a class, if you will, where you can have that dialog and discussion. Uh, obviously the networking component is a critical part of it, similar to and, you know, I've got a very strong, uh, pharmaceutical network. Um, but this offered me an opportunity to expand that network into, uh, FP&A professionals, but also outside my sector of expertise, if you will. You know, and I think the other part of it, too, is the holistic component of it. Right. And we talked a little bit. I mentioned it to the Gen I piece of it. Right. And so staying on top of industry trends, uh, and for me, it's important that I try to remain or I always want to remain an early adopter into technology and versus being so reactive, potentially. Um, and I think that, uh, when I kind of went through all of those things, I sort of landed on this, this program because I felt like it was really one of the the few programs that really, truly, for me, match what I'm doing right. You know, some of the other components there are puts and takes that are portions of your job. But this really was tried and true at Aetna. Uh, and uh, just kind of gave me what I was looking for in terms of making sure I check all the boxes that I wanted to from a personal development standpoint.
[00:15:50] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Now that makes a lot of sense. There's two things you said. I just want to ask a little bit of a follow up. First, you manage a team. You're a senior director. What was the response of your employees when they're like, you're going to go spend ten hours a week learning PHP and a like, were they all supportive or were they kind of surprised? I'm just curious.
[00:16:10] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Yeah. Yeah, sure.
[00:16:10] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Well, you know, I think the reality of it is I hope at least that it was a little bit of a learning mechanism for them, or maybe an aha for them to say, hey, look, you know, this is an individual who does have a tremendous amount of experience and is always looking to maybe raise the bar or better themselves. And so I think there's a maybe a little bit of a teaching element of that. But I, you know, I tried to approach it with them in a similar light of myself to say I don't know what I don't know. Meaning, I don't know if I have any blind spots or you know, what's going on in the industry today for an FP&A standpoint, are are there are individuals or companies or organizations or even, uh, industries doing things differently that we're not doing that we should be doing? And unless I probe that or try to figure that part of it out, you know, effectively I could be stuck in my ways. And so I think from that standpoint, people understood, you know, my intent behind that. And then also, you know, I and, uh, you know, you talk about ChatGPT and Microsoft Copilot and, you know, these are buzzwords, but what do they actually mean? Uh, and how do we handle them? And so I think that that was ultimately what I, you know, said to our team and, and I think we all kind of came to a place to say, all right, we've got to fill in for Dan a little bit, help him out while he's busy doing this coursework. But, uh, but, you know, on the back end we'll hopefully gain some insights.
[00:17:26] Host: Paul Barnhurst: You mean FP&A is busy?
[00:17:29] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Yeah, exactly.
[00:17:31] Host: Paul Barnhurst: You both laugh. Exactly. We've we've all been there. And then one other question you brought up is one of the big things you liked is the cohort style. So how much involvement is there with the other students in the program? Can you maybe just speak a little bit to that? Sure.
[00:17:45] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: So I could go to my, my obviously speak to my personal experience with it. So you know, they they are setting up slack chAnhls and opportunities for you to liaise, even if not live. But you can liaise through like a question board. There were virtual meetups where you just are, you know, obviously can meet up with folks and discuss things. We had WhatsApp chats. There were, uh, different networking events. They obviously happy hours. And so just an ample amount of opportunity to meet people. And whether or not you spoke about the course, I mean, of course, inherently that was our common bond. So it became a larger topic. But, uh, it allowed you to organically form a network to meet people, uh, with similar interests. And, uh, you know, maybe folks that are trying to come into FP&A so they would, you know, ask me those types of questions or other FP&A professionals that I met were maybe I'm saying, well, how are you guys sort of doing this today? Here's how we're handling that. So I think that that was kind of some of the interaction that I found to be really meaningful from a cohort standpoint.
[00:18:47] Host: Paul Barnhurst: FP&A guy here today. I'm super excited to talk to you about the FP&A Hub community, the online community that you can go to to get answers. Early in my career, I wish I had a place I could have went to where I didn't have to talk to somebody in the company, go to my boss again, or Google that I knew I could get answers from. That's what you can get at thefpahub.com. You can make friends, you can learn from others, you can attend events, put discussions and posts out there. You don't have to worry about all the selling and cheat sheets and stuff you get on LinkedIn. This is real conversations by real FP&A professionals. We have over 100 people in the community and it's absolutely free. That's the best thing. So please go ahead and join today thefpahub.com. You can join for free at thefpahub.com. And the FP&A guy looks forward to seeing you in this free community. Join today.
[00:19:50] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Okay, thanks. Dan and I have a question for you. I'm curious, were there other programs you considered you'd taken that you said, I think it was text based, kind of textbook type program before and didn't quite have what you want. So, you know, was it really just Wharton? I think you mentioned you found somebody who took it. You asked them a lot of questions. So I'm guessing you kind of zoomed in on this one this time. But were there other programs you considered before you enrolled in the Wharton Online program?
[00:20:16] Guest 2: Anh Tran: It's actually, um, Wharton was the first one, um, that I, you know, I came across and but because of that personal connection with my, my old boss. And, uh, I got, like, all the information from her, and I just felt that, you know, it was content rich. Um, it was, it sounded practical because they have, like, industry leaders coming to talk about different topics. Um, how it is applied in, like, a real world. Um, and it sounded like it was. The design was creative, right? It's not like what you could see in many other programs. So I, I thought that it was like would be a perfect fit for me. So and then I reached out to the, uh, coordinator and we had a conversation about it, which she reaffirmed all the things that I heard about it. And, you know, obviously my, you know, my old boss, like, strongly recommended it and spoke highly of it. So that was kind of a win for me. Um, so I didn't feel the need to explore other options at that point.
[00:21:24] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Now it makes a lot of sense, right? We all love when we go to good recommendation from somebody for something. It makes us much more comfortable. So like when you apply for a job and you talk to somebody who worked there and they say, oh, I love it. Great company, they treat you well. Versus if they say, and we've all been there. Uh, I would run if I was you. You're like, hmm, maybe this isn't for me. Right. I think we could all relate to that a little bit. How about how about you, Dan? Did you look at some other programs, or was it pretty much zeroed in on this one? In a way, you went.
[00:21:56] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: I looked at a few other, you know, business school, uh, certification programs. I initially to be to be honest, I wasn't 100% zooming in on, you know, it needs to be FP&A . I wanted to, again enhance myself, my own development, and I was focusing. I was zooming in on certifications, uh, certification, type of courses. And I found some that were, you know, there's a lot of wonderful courses that that offer different insights. But as I started to do my research, that's when I really started to hone in on the fact that, hey, I found this this program at Wharton that does focus in on FP&A . And then that's when I started the, you know, the bells started to go off and say, well, you know, what a wonderful opportunity to learn about best practices that might be outside of my industry and expertise. And I, you know, similar to what Ann was saying, I thought it was such a unique way of how they set it up. Uh, and it kind of gave that fulfillment of truly what is an FP&A professional do, but separately, uh, what does, um, you know, what are some of the features, the components of that FP&A and, and then also the opportunity to learn, you know, from a Wharton professor. Right. I think that, uh, you know, that also resonated with me to try and just, you know, to just be in that that environment. I think it kind of got everything it makes made me feel good about what I was walking into.
[00:23:16] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. Thank you. I appreciate you sharing that. It sounds like you looked at things beyond FP&A do I do a another program and, you know, traditional university setting or what do I do and felt like this was the best fit.
[00:23:29] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Yeah. And I also thought it was the most practical. I think that was sure.
[00:23:33] Host: Paul Barnhurst: That was a big part. So you were you really wanted to see hands on real world versus academic setting?
[00:23:42] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Yes, absolutely. Because again, I'm I'm trying to take action myself. Actionable insights to bring back to my organization. Right. And so I thought that was the the best way for me to do something like that. Less theory and more, you know, true. Uh, discussion around the profession.
[00:23:59] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. I 100% understand what you're saying. When you can talk to all people. You know, most of those instructors or people that have worked in the field for years, you're getting their real world insights versus here's the theory behind the Black-Scholes model or whatever. So I did that one for you, an investment banking. I figured you might recognize that term. No. So I'm curious, what was your key takeaways from the program? You know, as you look back now, what's maybe the key thing you took away from this program, man?
[00:24:30] Guest 2: Anh Tran: Uh, yeah, sure.
[00:24:31] Guest 2: Anh Tran: And actually, I wanted to add to the the previous question because I actually had that very similar question to, uh, to my old boss when I was talking to her. Like, why did she pick that? Because she just took the program. And then she said that, um, you know, one of the biggest, um, the one that beyond other courses out there is the networking opportunity. So that's, that's sort of got me sold on it. Um, so, yeah. So the key takeaway from the program is that, um, you know, this this program offers a variety of features that cater to different individuals, like, like you, like me and Dan, we benefited from different ways with different goals and different, you know, Aspirations. But if you're like me, this program could be a good fit for you. If you're looking to transition into corporate FP&A like me and seeking like practical insights into the roles and responsibilities of the FP&A profession, and it's done in a very easy to follow format. Like I said, virtual meetings and one on one. And then the second thing that takeaway is that if you want to receive the professional advice and career guidance and resume and interview strategies for FP&A roles and learn how to navigate the FP&A recruiting process they have, like these direct one on one meetings, uh, with the, um, you know, the successful corporate FP&A leader who taught the program so that that is a benefit that I don't think that is available in other typical like certificate program out there.
[00:26:17] Guest 2: Anh Tran: And then, you know, obviously, if you want to understand what's included and you want to aim to enhance both your soft and technical skills for current and future for functions like I, you know, on that, then you know, this is done through a very interactive and creative learning platform. So and then the other thing that is I like about this program is that, like if you're interested in learning from like the career paths, uh, the key qualities of successful finance executives, you know, like CFOs or presidents of companies, um, they serve as guest speakers, um, or lecturers in the program. So that that I really enjoy for every single model. So, yeah, like we talked about a lot like if you want to expand your professional network to include more for professions, um, you know, this is across all like diverse industries and And regions and receive ongoing professional support from your new connections, which I've been receiving even after the program ends. And this, this this could be a right program for you. It was right for me.
[00:27:26] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Great. Thank you. Anh. Um, Dan, how has the program helped you? Like, how have you taken it back to your day to day job?
[00:27:33] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Sure. You know, so I mentioned earlier, right? I wanted to know what what am I missing? Or also reinforce our what we're doing or what am I what am I doing today? Is it the best practice, the right thing to do? And so I think at a very macro level it did or was able to reinforce, hey, you know, a lot of the things that we're doing today are what's going on in the industry today. When we talk about variance analysis and how we kind of get to the root cause, but, you know, not to get into too much technical stuff, but almost a small facet of the course was a component was about rate volume. So you talk about price volume mix when you do, you know, revenue forecasting and so on. But rate volume from an expense standpoint was obviously something I'm familiar with, but not something that I think we were utilizing to the best of our ability. Meaning, uh, building it into our base standard of of how to do variance analysis. This is a very basic component. And so when I came back and we implemented that to say, hey, you know, especially when we're talking about headcount variances and things of that sort. Let's do this rate volume analysis. Excuse me rate volume analysis to determine hey obviously is it is it headcount driven, personnel driven or is it dollar driven. And if it's dollar driven why.
[00:28:45] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Right. And that's and that is the one of the more practical components of what we, uh, brought back. And then, you know, the other thing is we talk about Gen I right. And Microsoft Copilot. And so to me, that's something that I've personally taken a big step forward in using in my day to day component of things is just understanding, hey, you know, I've got a I've got to present something, you know, just interested in an outline potentially of like, you know, what would be the maybe the course of action to to get the point across that I'm trying to make. And so, you know, and sometimes I don't use it, you know, not using the output, using the outline. Sometimes I say, ah, you know what? I think I could explain it better, but it at least it probes my creative thinking, right? And I don't know that that was something, um, that I would have been able to do organically. Right. And so, you know, and I think that that's that's been a really nice takeaway for me on the, on the personal front. So I think those two components of reinforcing, uh, learning something new to do more day to day, and then the gen piece are really some key takeaways that, uh, someone like myself, who's been in the industry for a long time, can still utilize and bring back, uh, and use going forward.
[00:29:56] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thanks for sharing that, Dan. You know, and I would love to know how is the program helped you since completing it? What are maybe some of the things you've taken away on a, on a daily basis, or things where you really feel it's helped you?
[00:30:10] Guest 2: Anh Tran: Yeah. So I it.
[00:30:12] Guest 2: Anh Tran: Helped me in many ways. So like I mentioned before, I took this course to prepare me to transition back to, uh, corporate for from an investment bank. So from this perspective, firstly because I gained a deeper understanding of the role and having the FP&A knowledge and the skill set refreshed in many areas and expanded in some. So it boosted my confidence. And when I, you know, prepare for a job interviews for FP&A roles and it helped me tailor my my strategies. And I think that if and when I start working, you know, perform the job, then I would be able to do it more effectively once I transition into the role. And then the other. The second thing is that this program is special in a way that it has a direct one on one meeting. Um, so I took full advantage of that. And it's like only 20 minutes a week. But you know, it's done by the the like a EPA leader who taught the program. So I received like the personalized professional advice, career guidance, you know, resume reviews and interview strategies for the EPA roles that is tailored to my background. So that's like very valuable to me. This, you know, level of personalized support is unique, you know, unique in a feature of this program.
[00:31:39] Guest 2: Anh Tran: Um, so the next benefit is that, you know, I achieved one of my key goals from the program, which was to grow my professional network, um, significantly. So I think I doubled it. I did put a lot of due diligence on it, like I connected to everyone that I could and I, you know, kept conversation with them. I shared my input about the program, my thoughts. And so we, we, you know, we exchanged messages and everything. It was not just like, you know, hey, connect. So that was very beneficial. So so what that means is that, you know, when, uh, when and if I need to learn about a company or industry, I feel like I could tap into my network to, you know, to to find some support, to get some insight about those companies. And that was one of my intention, and it was very interesting and very rewarding to know more people, you know, the professionals like you. And obviously, this podcast is a great example of how the program has, you know, and enable me to connect with, uh, with so many more professionals. And in return, I'm also, you know, providing support to whoever reached out to me to ask questions. So it's very, very fun and very rewarding.
[00:32:53] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Good. I'm glad to hear you say that. It's always great to have rewarding, and it's great for programs that give you that help with job and consulting and different things like that. You know, there's many of them don't. I know a few few that have started to add some things like that. And it's great that, you know, working online has that. Next question. So this is kind of a moment of truth question. I think they say it takes you right now ten hours a week. First cohort was something like eight. How much time did you really spend a week Dan.
[00:33:20] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Yeah, sure. So I joke with with Christian, the, the uh, the program lead on this, uh, when when he first asked me this question, uh, so I was part of the first cohort, uh, and I was told it was, uh, 6 to 8 hours and then at most the 8 to 10 hours. And, um, you know, to be real, I would say truthfully, it's it's north of that, you know, I'd say and it varies by module, but really, when you're in the crux of the modeling and the crux of the coursework, you know, it's truly 10 to 15 hours, you know, a week. And that's, you know, from the start of the modules to the end of the exam, uh, and, you know, and then it could even be longer when you, uh, you know, listen to all the guest lectures and so on. And there were times where I had to go back and, you know, maybe wasn't able weren't able to listen to the guest lecturers for that given week, but, you know, would go back and listen to them. But, um, you know, simply put, the course is not, uh, it's not easy. Uh, I don't know how to say it any other way, but I mean that with all due respect, because I think it's meaningful, right? You're you're you're putting in this time, this effort and, uh, hopefully gaining and getting out of it. What, you know, what you're ultimately paying for. And so, um, so it definitely, uh, does take time. Um, but there's also a really good reward at the end of it, that sense of fulfillment. And then also obviously, uh, the accomplishment of getting the certification.
[00:34:41] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. Well thank you. No. That's good. Just for people to know, to go in and say, look, here's the average estimate. Many people spend more than that. Be prepared. And what about you? How much time did you put in a week?
[00:34:53] Guest 2: Anh Tran: Oh, that's a the question that I thought about the longest couldn't count. Uh, I'm still spending time on it now. There are many like, electives that I very good that I have not been able to go through. But just for, um, you know, the during the course then I would say at least 12 hours for me. Um, so that covered the time to go over all the video lessons. I would say, like, say six could be seven, could be five. Uh, take notes. I did not take notes as much as some other people, but I did, you know, rewatch the video. So that's that. Counted as taking notes, practice quizzes. Um, and I took full advantage of the office hours, which is one once a week. Um, there's a one on one meeting, about 20 minutes, but I, uh, prepared for it. Um, so that was sometime. And of course, exam time depending on each person, but it could be 30 to 50 questions. Um, it could be very long. So, um, and then, and then the exam result review because, you know, the questions can be Challenging and could have been interpreted in many different ways. So, um, so yeah, it's, um, it's very comprehensive. It's no joke. It has elements that keep it, um, not dry. Uh, interesting. There's always something new or something deeper or something fun or something practical to learn from. So it was long, but it was good.
[00:36:25] Host: Paul Barnhurst: FP&A Guy. Here today I want to talk about something that can help you in your career. That's FP&A certificates. We all want ways to stand out and to validate to our employers that we're serious about our profession, and that we understand that a great way to do that is to get a certificate or a credential that demonstrates your ability to do the work. There are several great programs out there in FP&A in financial modeling, and I cover those on my website. I've done an episode on FP&A tomorrow about them, and I'm doing episodes in the future about all the different programs. Bringing in customers to talk about them. So if you're interested in showing your employer that you're serious about FP&A and upgrading your skills, look at an FP&A certificate. There's ones fromFP&A c Wharton Online CFI. Fmi offers a great one for advanced financial modeling. There's the FP&A Professionals Institute and others, and I cover all those on my website. So go to the FP&A guy and check them out. Go to Certificates and courses FP&A certificates. And the best part is with each of these programs, I have a discount code where you can receive a special discount for taking that program. So check it out today. Level up your skills by earning a certificate or credential to demonstrate your seriousness about around FP&A .
[00:37:51] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I hear you. I saw Dan kind of nod, who said there could be a lot of questions for some of the exams. I think it was for cohort two. I reviewed some of the questions. They always have a second person reviewing them and go. Being one of the instructors, I think I'd mentioned that before, but if people followed me, they know I was one of the instructors in the program, so I'm quite familiar with it. I know you know Christian well, and so I've seen some of those test questions, and I know some of them. Sometimes they're hard to not make them a little ambiguous. There's always some challenges and you definitely need to be paying attention. So I would agree with both of you on that. All right. Next one. This should be kind of a fun question. And maybe we'll start here with you on an was there a favorite module or section where you just you were like, wow, I really learned a ton. I love that it just kind of stood out to you. I know usually people have an area they kind of enjoy the most when they're doing a program.
[00:38:45] Guest 2: Anh Tran: Yeah, like I said, the way that it's designed, it's I think it's clever because it's just always something in some in a model, like it's not the whole thing, but there's always fun. But so I think about it as I define my favorite module as one where I learned something completely new, right? That I did not know before on belly and intriguing. Um, so in the context of finance. So that's why I got to, um, I highlight the last module in the course, uh, it's titled like, preparing for the Future of FP&A . Um, so what this module does is that it's focused on how FP&A professionals can leverage tools like ChatGPT to save time and become more effective. Um, and then I learned how to use the free version of the tool to analyze data, you know, to protect sensitive information and to write financial commentary and to and to visualize results. Um, so I found this one, you know, very fascinating and which actually piqued my interest in exploring how AI is being integrated into finance today. So I had a little adventure after that. So I recently embarked on a small adventure with a company specialized in AI and machine learning. Inspired by that module, I took on projects with them as an AI trainer for finance, where I helped train AI models for financial analysis and strategic planning. And it's done in an interesting way that it um, it leveraged like I leveraged my finance expertise to stimulate like complex and real world scenarios. It has to be like no textbook scenarios and then it to to to help AI systems to understand and execute the, you know, the more advanced, um, financial tasks effectively. So, so that is one of the immediate, um, benefits of taking the course. And I truly enjoyed the the opportunity to to dive deeper into the AI applications in finance from that module.
[00:40:54] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thank you. Appreciate you sharing that an I was hoping you'd say the Power Query section. I'm kidding.
[00:40:58] Guest 2: Anh Tran: Oh I know. Yeah. So next next one. Is that the power query? I um, after that I took another Power Query course. Uh, because I couldn't have enough of it. I actually earned another certificate of Power Query from the Corporate Finance Institute.
[00:41:15] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Love it.
[00:41:16] Guest 2: Anh Tran: Yes, yes.
[00:41:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And so for anyone who doesn't know, I did the Power Query section. That was some of the training I did. So I was just kind of joking with an there that that was a little bit of an inside. So people don't know. But Dan, what about you? What was your kind of favorite module or section?
[00:41:31] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Sure. This is totally unprompted actually, but module four, which is financial analysis and FP&A , uh, happened to be my favorite. And of course, actually, Paul, that is where your Power Query one, uh, came to be. But, you know, we talk about different goals and different motivations, right? So ends motivations a little bit different than mine. But my big motivation was, you know, wanting to make sure, reinforce and and relearn and, uh, the different techniques that are going on today in FP&A to make sure that, you know, we're doing the right thing, uh, in our business and in my team. And so module four kind of was the crux of, in my opinion, of FP&A . Right. You talk about, you know, Power Query, but you talk about data cleansing, right? Some of the hardest parts of being an FP&A is starting. All right. I've got a big chunk of stuff. Uh, and I need to I need to provide an actionable insight about it. Uh, and so, you know, I think that that was a really wonderful, um, module to kind of walk you through the steps. All right. So here's this data component. How do we kind of parcel this out and get some, some um, some meat if you will, that we can look at. And then, you know, some of the different techniques and, you know, variance analyzes and what is a variance analysis and what does that mean. And then ultimately being able to convey that story right. And so I found that to be for me the most practical for what I was looking for out of the course. And it just was a really good foundation for someone who might be wanting to come into FP&A, frankly, to understand what a day to day kind of situation look like. Well, that was that.
[00:43:02] Host: Paul Barnhurst: You know, and you made me kind of chuckle as you were talking about, you know, how we deal with data, real life. You spend a lot of time with data. I saw something that one said, how would you describe the job of an FP&A professional? And the description was, we spend 80% of our time cleaning data and 20% complaining about the data we have to clean.
[00:43:23] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Right? Right.
[00:43:24] Host: Paul Barnhurst: You know, there are definitely days that it feels like that. I mean, obviously it's an exaggeration, but it kind of made me chuckle because you do spend a lot of time cleaning and working with data. If that's not, you don't enjoy doing or at least can't, you know, can't tolerate it for the other stuff you really enjoy, this isn't the right place for you. If that's a truly painful thing, then you might want to rethink your, uh, profession because at least till today, hopefully it will get better and continue to with AI and other things. But you're going to spend some cleaning all right.
[00:43:55] Guest 2: Anh Tran: And and learn power theories.
[00:43:58] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yes. Thank you. An I wish I.
[00:44:00] Guest 2: Anh Tran: Had done that before.
[00:44:02] Guest 2: Anh Tran: I did C car.
[00:44:05] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. Power query is a wonderful tool. I talk about it a lot. I had a guest one time that said when they described their favorite thing about Power Query, they said about Excel, they're like, my favorite thing of Excel is Power Query. Angels came down when I learned about it, and I just kind of kind of laughed. So we've had some fun moments around that one. Is there a section you maybe you found less beneficial or didn't enjoy as much? Not to say it's a bad section. I mean, I imagine they're all good modules, but was there a, you know, one of those that you're just kind of like, yeah, I already know all this or I'm never going to use this in my work. Or maybe you just thought wasn't as beneficial to you. We'll start with you, Dan, on this one.
[00:44:43] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: I probably gave it away Earlier in the interview when I said I did a stint in cost accounting, you know, so I and I want to be truthful, I think it's is there's tremendous value in it. And I think actually the module truly was wonderful. It was it was real. Uh, that doesn't mean it was my favorite.
[00:45:03] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Of course. And that's why I say the least favorite. I'm trying to.
[00:45:07] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: It was very technical. Um, but, uh, everything that we were taught in the module, uh, is really what a cost accountant does, right? You're, you know, talking about setting standards and you're talking about overhead rates and really what I'll say dense, technical, uh, skill set. And so while I do think it was, it is foundational and super important, I would be honest and say that it was probably, uh, maybe not my my favorite of the program.
[00:45:32] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Very diplomatic. Dan, spoken like a senior finance professional. You know, when you're that bad commentary that bad month. But but we had this strength and well, you have to be aware of this, and I get it. Well done. You get an A for that one. And how about you.
[00:45:48] Guest 2: Anh Tran: Yeah. So I I've, I've thought about this and unfortunately like I don't have a list favorite module either. And the reason is because I think like I mentioned before, like this program, the way that it's designed, it's creative and it's thoughtful. So it may not be the case for all of the content in the module. Like there's no way that a module can have everything that you like, right? There may be something that you don't like, but then because the things that I like kind of made up for it. So, um, like, you know, each offers something interesting, some thought provoking, uh, something valuable for me, um, something that can, you know, help meaningfully to enhance my skills or it's just something, you know, enjoyable to listen to. Um, so it could be like a new concept. Completely. Or it could be like understanding. You know, how the theories we learned are implemented practically in the real world. It could be, you know, something that I can relate to my existing experiences, like, say, for the things that I already knew, you know, like forecasting, financial modeling and all those. But then it put it into the context of the corporate for then I could relate to it. So it was not boring. Um, and then, you know, some topics they dive deeper into, you know, the specifics or, you know, to help me refresh the knowledge that I learned before, uh, that I may have forgotten because I haven't used it, you know, for a long while.
[00:47:20] Guest 2: Anh Tran: So that was why, you know, it's something there that interested me. And then and then in every module, they have a, um, particularly they I enjoy the guest speaker series, um, because it's embedded into each module. So that's why no module is boring for me, um, and then it's they, you know, they tailor like specifically to the topic of the module to help, you know, make that, um, could be textbook dry knowledge, bring it to life. Right. So that's why it's interesting. And, you know, the guest speakers are all finance executives and CFOs, and it's all like from different companies, different industries and company sizes. So, you know, hearing from them directly and, you know, hearing how the theories that we learned, we just learned, like, you know, two hours before, uh, you know, implemented practically. Um, so that's why it was interesting and and valuable. So that's why it's hard for me to pinpoint any particular model, like, say, a strategic cost accounting. It kind of came up to me too, but because I'm, you know, I wasn't always in accounting, but then it had other things to, like, make it interesting. Like, you know, there would be someone talking about how it's applied in the real world. So? So that's why I couldn't find one. Like, if they just have one module that does not so many different elements, then there might be. But the way that they designed.
[00:48:51] Guest 2: Anh Tran: It.
[00:48:52] Guest 2: Anh Tran: I think is clever.
[00:48:54] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thank you. Thank you for sharing that and I appreciate it. We're going to move into the FP&A section. This is a standard question every guest gets. We'll look for just kind of a quick short answer to get your thoughts on on these. So we'll start here I think we'll start with uh we'll start with uh Ann here. What is the number one technical skill that FP&A professionals need to master?
[00:49:16] Guest 2: Anh Tran: Oh, wow.
[00:49:18] Guest 2: Anh Tran: That's a lot. Um, yeah. So the technical skills I. There are a long list of them, right? Financial modeling. And you go from, I would say, I don't know, 5 or 7 accounting forecasting Excel including power queries. Root cause analysis. Budgeting, Reporting, presenting all that. But I think the number one would be for me would be financial modeling. Um, you know, because it's it's the foundation. And I was fortunate enough I've been working for many, many years in financial modeling. So it's the foundation for budgeting, forecasting, scenario analysis, all kinds of fun things. Stress testing, uh, sensitivity analysis. So if you master this, like, you can build robust models, different scenarios, assess risks, you know, and if you want to be able to make recommendations, then you have like a data driven recommendations, um, not just back of the envelope. And yeah. So that is uh, to me that is a financial modeling.
[00:50:25] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. Dan, what about you? What do you think that number one skill is?
[00:50:29] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Uh, to me, it's it's analytical proficiency. I sort of made made that up, but I, uh, I think it encompasses a lot of what what Ann was mentioning, too. But, you know, at the end of the day, um, the goal is for us to deliver a solution or an insight for create progress for the organization one way or the other. And you can't do that unless you can really analyze information and get to really the deep, you know, the deep components of what is the issue at hand. And so I think sometimes there might be instances where people just do maybe just get to surface level the source of the of an issue or the variance and present it as such, but not actually going in further and understanding, well, how do I change that? And so to me, that that is all encompassed in what I call analytical proficiency.
[00:51:22] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I like it good good term. Appreciate that. And thank you for both those answers. We'll move to the next one. So what's the number one soft skill Dan that we need our human skill whatever you want to call it.
[00:51:31] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Yeah sure. Um to me Absolutely. It's being able to confidently convey and tell a financial story. I think many FP&A professionals, we all sort of start with that technical foundation, right? That's the source of of all of our efforts when we're we're younger in our career. But, you know, I think what starts to separate people as you progress in your career is being able to then tell that story, synthesize that message and convey that to to leadership, but also to stakeholders who maybe outside of finance. So that's soft skill. That communication component is as important and in some respects maybe even more important than the technical side of things. You obviously need the technical foundation, but if you can't explain it, then what good is it? And so I think that's something that takes a lot of time to learn. But when you can get there, you know, then you're really rounding out your your career and your skill set.
[00:52:26] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Great. Thank you. And what about you, Ann? What's that softer human skill that you think is number one?
[00:52:31] Guest 2: Anh Tran: Yeah, I completely agree with Dan and communication skills. So it's the hardest to master, but it's the most important one.
[00:52:41] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, definitely. Communication is huge. I mean, if that's the one we hear a lot, obviously modeling, we hear a lot. We've heard analytics. It's always fun to see the difference people have because there's no right answer or wrong answer to these. It's hey, what do you think is most important? I guess I could say there are a couple of wrong answers. I'm sure there's some things. If I heard it, I'd be like, I don't know where that came from. But anyway, so now we're going to ask you one question each, just kind of in the interest of time, as we're about ready to wrap up here, kind of personal questions, just kind of a fun one. So we'll start here with you, Dan, on this one. If you could have any job in the world for one week, what job would you take and why?
[00:53:23] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Sure. I think about this and I guess it's a little bit cliche, but to be honest with you, I think I would love to be honestly a professional athlete in a team sport like football or baseball and putting money aside for a second, I know, which is I shouldn't say that in this podcast, right. But, you know, it's actually the the team element. That to me is I think the, the coolest part of it. Right? You know, I was fortunate enough to grow up playing sports. And some of my best friends today are, uh, guys that I played sports with growing up. And so that I, you miss that team element. And I just think it would be such a cool experience to be an athlete, be in a game and kind of go through the trenches with your teammates and sort of form that bond. You know, it's hard to replicate that in a day to day. And so that would be what I think a really neat experience, uh, to do if I had the opportunity to.
[00:54:12] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. So if you could be any athlete in any sport for one game, who are you going to be?
[00:54:18] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Oh my gosh. You know what? I'll just say I'd like to be LeBron James because that way I could just be the best at my game from uh, from a basketball standpoint, the best player, the best teammate, uh, and uh, and it would be cool to be to be that awesome.
[00:54:34] Host: Paul Barnhurst: As I said, you just want to be king for a day.
[00:54:36] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Yeah. Yeah, exactly, exactly.
[00:54:38] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Anyone who follows LeBron will know what I'm talking about there. If not, you can go Google it. All right. And here's your question. What did you want to be when you grew up? What what was it when you were a child? You're like, I want to be this.
[00:54:52] Guest 2: Anh Tran: Yeah. So many people can answer that question so easily. Uh, but, you know, for me, like, it's funny when I, um, I often think back to when I was growing up, like, what I wanted to be. And I realized that I really never had a clear idea of what I wanted to be. Maybe nobody asked me that question, then didn't provoke my thoughts. I do remember clearly, though, that I did not want to be, um, what I did not want to be. Um. So one is I ruled out becoming a doctor or a nurse. Um, because I wasn't great at chemistry at school. So not sure about pharmaceutical job, Dan. Teaching wasn't also for me either. I did not enjoy, like, tutoring my little brother. Um, you know, even for the subject that I liked in school more than others.Like math or brother.
[00:55:47] Guest 2: Anh Tran: Yeah. So back then, when I grew up, uh, we didn't have much else to do besides school. So, um, the subject that I. So mostly about school, right. So the subject that I enjoy the most in school was math, because I think because I had a great math teacher then. So. And my mom used to work in banking academic institute. So I think that's probably impacted me naturally. I envisioned for a future, you know, in finance, perhaps at a bank, you know, which was a path that I eventually pursued when I moved to America. So now I want to be in corporate finance Instead of in investment bank.
[00:56:28] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. Well thank you. Thank you both for joining me. I really enjoyed our chat today. Appreciate all the advice you've given us. And, you know, let's say someone's listening to this podcast and they'd love to get in touch with you or potentially ask a question. Is there a best way for them to do that? Is it LinkedIn or you know, what would you say, Dan?
[00:56:49] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Yeah, definitely reach out via LinkedIn. For me, my name, Dan Cotoia, is how you'll find me through LinkedIn. And I'm happy to talk through the program coursework. Obviously, you know, FP&A in general, anything I could do to help to help somebody along that, no problem doing so.
[00:57:04] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thank you. Really appreciate that. How about you?
[00:57:06] Guest 2: Anh Tran: Oh yes.
[00:57:06] Guest 2: Anh Tran: Linkedin too. For me I'm there.
[00:57:09] Host: Paul Barnhurst: That's what I.Think.
[00:57:12] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well, thank you so much, both of you for coming on and sharing about your experience. I really think this series will be helpful for our audience. We're covering all the major different programs out there so people can hear what actual experiences like where somebody who took the program. So thank you so much for carving out some time. I know it's evening for both of you getting a little late, so we really appreciate it. Thank you.
[00:57:35] Guest 1: Dan Cotoia: Thanks a lot. Pleasure.
[00:57:36] Guest 2: Anh Tran: Thank you.
[00:57:38] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thanks for listening to FP&A tomorrow. If you enjoyed the show, please leave us a five star rating and a review on your podcast platform of choice. This allows us to continue to bring you great guests from around the globe. As a reminder, you can earn CPE credit by going to earmarkcpe.com, downloading the app, taking a short quiz, and getting your CPE certificate to earn continuing education credits for the FPAC certification. Take the quiz on earmark and contact me the show host for further details.