How Finance Leaders Can Overcome Burnout, Find Purpose & Love Mondays in FP&A with Ron Monteiro
In this episode of FP&A Tomorrow, host Paul Barnhurst, known as "The FP&A Guy," welcomes returning guest Ron Monteiro. Ron is a seasoned finance professional turned author who shares highlights from his new book, Love Mondays!, which looks into finding joy in your work life, particularly in the finance and FP&A sectors. Together, they explore how mindset, workplace culture, and personal development play pivotal roles in career satisfaction.
Ron Monteiro is a finance veteran with over 20 years of experience in FP&A roles at companies like Kraft, Campbell Soup, and Kruger Products. He has served as VP of Finance and is now an entrepreneur focused on teaching storytelling and communication in finance. Ron's journey from a shy, anxious teenager in Kenya to leading meetings with CEOs is a testament to his growth and resilience. His latest book, Love Mondays!, aims to help people across all professions find joy in their work and personal lives.
Expect to Learn:
The story behind Love Mondays! and how Ron transitioned from corporate finance to author.
Why attitude and environment are equally important in finding fulfillment at work.
Practical steps to identify your purpose using frameworks like Ikigai.
How networking and mentorship can transform your career trajectory.
Strategies to avoid burnout in demanding FP&A roles and maintain a healthy work-life balance.
Here are a few relevant quotes from the episode:
“A boss can make or break your experience early in your career, but as you grow, it’s the culture and mentors that shape you.”
“Gratitude is a game-changer. It’s hard to be unhappy when you’re focused on what’s going well.”
“Surround yourself with people who uplift you. The right network can open doors you didn’t even know existed.”
It’s clear that loving your work and yes, even your Mondays is about more than just the role you’re in. It’s about your mindset, your environment, and the intentional steps you take toward fulfillment. Whether you're deep in FP&A or exploring a completely different path, Ron’s four-step framework offers a roadmap to not just surviving your workweek but truly thriving in it.
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In Today’s Episode
[01:29] - Introduction to the Episode & Guest
[02:12] - Ron's Journey: From Kenya to Finance Leadership
[04:12] - Inspiration Behind the Book - Love Mondays!
[05:13] - Do Finance Professionals Love Mondays?
[07:55] - The Role of Bosses and Company Culture
[10:09] - The Power of Networking and Building Career Resilience
[14:08] - Burnout in FP&A and Taking Control
[19:06] - The Four-Step Framework to Love Mondays!
[30:23] - Practical Advice for Career Shifts
[43:57] - Final Thoughts & Where to Find Love Mondays!
Full Show Transcript
[00:01:29] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Hello everyone! Welcome to FP&A tomorrow, where we delve into the world of financial planning and analysis, examining its current state and future prospects. I'm your host, Paul Barnhurst, aka the FP&A guy, and I'll be guiding you through the evolving landscape of FP&A. This week we have a real treat for you. We have a guest that's been on the show before, Ron Monteiro. He is back this week to join me. He just published his book, Love Mondays!, and we're going to discuss that and have a conversation about what it means to love Mondays. Did we love our Mondays in FP&A? You know why he wrote the book and some other things. So really excited to have you on the show, Ron. Welcome back.
[00:02:08] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Yeah. Thank you Paul, I'm super excited to be here.
[00:02:11] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Good. Well, why don't we start? I'd love to start with you. Just giving your background. I know people have heard some of that before, but tell a little bit about your story and also how you came to write the book.
[00:02:21] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Yeah. Fantastic. So I grew up in Kenya, so I moved from Kenya to Canada and when I was a teenager. And the reason I share that is I really, I had a ton of anxiety. I had lots of trouble with public speaking. So fast forward, did my accounting degree started with an accounting job at Hitachi. It was a good foundational job. And then I actually spent 15 years at Kraft and spent much of my time in FP&A roles at the analyst, manager, and director level. And I really got to love FP&A. And the reason I loved FP&A is because I felt like I was in the business, I was involved, I could see the products that I was working on in the grocery store, so absolutely love that career. I went on to be the VP of finance for a private beverage company, and then I also went back to FP&A roles at Campbell Soup and Kruger Products. And so I absolutely loved my 20 year career in finance. And about three years ago, I decided to start my own business. And I wanted to teach storytelling again. Back to, I was very shy, and I found a way to feel confident and be able to lead meetings with CEOs. So I wanted to share that journey. And that's where I started doing training courses, and that's where our path intersected. And so for the last three years, you and I have done training sessions for people all over the world. It's amazing to see people in America all the way to Zimbabwe and in between. And I've always had this passion or this bucket list item to write a book. And I chose to write it on how do people find more joy in their lives, whether it's in a role, whether it's in a teacher, a Buddhist monk, whatever you are, how do we intentionally find more joy? Because I want people to love the work they do.
[00:04:02] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. I appreciate that. I know you've tried to get me to write a book. I keep trying to tell me I need to write one, and I keep telling you, we'll get there. Give me time. Right. Why was it love? Mondays first? How did that, you said you always had it on your bucket list to write a book. But why was your first book? What was the kind of impetus behind that? Is there a story about that?
[00:04:23] Guest: Ron Monteiro: You know what, like I, I started doing this podcast, right? And I got inspiration from you. I started doing, you know, amateur podcasts compared to your podcast. But it was my I started interviewing people to say, how do they love what they are doing? I tried to find people who just really inspired me, and somehow the name became Love Mondays!. Like, I actually don't even know how I came up with that name, but for me it signifies Monday is the start of the work week. So how do we love Monday? And every other day? And then it naturally became okay, I interviewed 15, 20 people, including yourself. I kind of liked that as a title of a book. And I just started working towards it. So it's not like it was some grand plan. It just kind of evolved into this one. And there's something about I just love Mondays that just people understand right away what you're talking about.
[00:05:13] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So let's talk FP&A for a minute. You think most people you worked in finance in FP&A that you worked with were loving their Mondays? What was your take of kind of as you look back over your career?
[00:05:24] Guest: Ron Monteiro: No, it's all over the board, right? Like I've met people who just love their job and that's all they wanted to do. And you know, they love Monday and every other day. I've also loved for folks who are mailing it in, it's mail in Monday and mail it in Friday, and they didn't like it. And going deeper into that question, our attitude has a huge impact on whether we love our jobs, whether it's a teacher, an FP&A person, whether it's an FP&A person in corporate, whether it's, you know, a person who works with marketing or sales. I think that attitude plays a big part of it.
[00:05:57] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I agree with you. And I have a follow up question to that. But before you get there, you mentioned how, you know, some people hate Monday and every other day and some people love their job. I worked with the guy every Friday. He'd check out early, and every Monday he'd show up late and he would always go, yeah, Friday. Tyler hates Monday. Tyler. And so, you know, kind of that, like, you drag you in and just like, why am I here? And it always kind of made me laugh. But at the same time I was like, yeah, don't, don't want to be that way. And so that was the first. And you know, second thing is you mentioned attitude, you know, and we can control our attitude. We can't control what happens to us. But how much do you think loving a job is attitude versus hey you have to find the right fit for you. Like there's a right career or maybe a couple right careers kind of. What's your thought on that?
[00:06:48] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Yeah, no, I think I think they're both important. And I'd say attitude is to me, if I was to put a number, it's at least 50% of the battle to say, am I bringing an attitude that yes, I can enjoy my job, I can love my job, I can make an impact. The second half is really the environment you're in. So again, going back, going back to my experience, my first job, Hitachi Data Systems. Good company. But the accounting team was very much busy at month end, not busy during the middle of the month and there wasn't any drive to get better. It was just like, here's how we do it. And I actually didn't like my job. Like I still had a pretty decent attitude. I learned a lot, but then I got stagnant, whereas I went into the next role, which was crap. And, you know, it was just a culture of, okay, let's learn more, let's grow more, let's the leaders actually actively helped you get to places you couldn't get like public speaking. So I think they're both important attitude. I honestly think you can have if you have a bad attitude, even a fantastic culture, it's not enough to unlock potential. But if you have a great attitude in a great culture. To me, that's Nirvana.
[00:07:55] Host: Paul Barnhurst: How much of a role does your boss play in all this? I mean, let's talk culture for a minute. A lot of people say you don't leave companies, you leave bosses. But at the same time, we join a career because that's something we're interested in. So what role does that play?
[00:08:08] Guest: Ron Monteiro: I think you're a boss. Your manager plays a huge role. And at the same time, like I've been in many roles where, okay, my manager is not interested in developing me and they're busy with other stuff. And, and what I, what I did in those circumstances, I didn't quit immediately. I said, okay, is there anyone else internally or externally I can use as a mentor or coach to help me? And so yes, it was important. And I loved a lot of the roles were at Phenomenal Bosses, but I've had many who were, especially once I got to the senior director level. CFO had no time for me, like I had to figure out my own ways to develop. So yes, it's important, but I would say the culture of an organization to me is actually more important than your direct manager. As you go up the ladder. Right. I'd say more junior, like if you're an analyst or manager, like if you're very junior, I think it's very important to have a boss who's invest time with you, spends time with you. But as you grow, there's many other ways to get that development.
[00:09:11] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I was going to challenge you. And then you said it in later roles and you elaborated on that. And I can agree with that. I think early on a manager is critical, especially right out of college. Those first couple roles, they can really help teach you as you're trying to get comfortable and realize that you can have mentors beyond your boss. But as you move up the ladder, for sure you can get mentors elsewhere. You know, obviously if you're in a toxic environment, that's a different story with the.
[00:09:37] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Yeah, 100%.
[00:09:38] Host: Paul Barnhurst: There's bosses that take an interest in you and develop you, and those are huge for your career. And then there's the ones that it's just an unhealthy environment. They don't treat people well, and that it doesn't matter if you're a junior or senior. You generally just want to get out of that environment.
[00:09:54] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Yeah. Paul. And so you didn't ask me this question, but I'll ask myself. So one thing I've learned is if I was to rewind as back to Ron when he had hair and he's an analyst.
[00:10:07] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Wait, you had hair? Do you have a picture?
[00:10:09] Guest: Ron Monteiro: I would actually invest a lot more time in networking and, you know, meeting people in the industry, because I did get to periods where I had a toxic environment or a toxic boss, but I felt stuck. So if you know, if I was to rewind letter to my younger self, so to speak, I would actually invest in them. Okay. How do I build a foundation of people and a network where if I get into that situation, I feel like I can move to a better situation. Do you know what I mean?
[00:10:37] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I know 100% what you mean. I didn't build a network at all early in my career. You know, it took me a year out of undergrad to find a career role. I mean, I did some banquet serving some things to pay the bills, but it wasn't really a job that had anything to do with my degree, and it took me six months out of grad school. You know, I've always kind of had a hard time finding those jobs and transitioning, and I'd never really built a network. Now, as I've started to, you know, do this business, I've built a network and I have opportunities to talk to people. And I feel like if I had to find a job today, had to get out of an environment for whatever reason, it wasn't healthy. It would be much easier than any time in my career.
[00:11:12] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Yeah, and I'll tell a little story here where Paul and myself do a lot of training in different parts of the world. And so occasionally Paul will come to Toronto, Canada, my hometown. And when he comes here every night, somebody is taking him out for dinner and wants to get his expertise on FP&A. So again, it just speaks to, you know, both of us didn't really have great networking skills, a great network early in our career, and now we invest a ton of time. And you just see that the hard work Paul's put in, you know, of course cost 100,000 followers. People all around the world are looking for Paul because he adds a ton of value. So it takes work, right? And, you know, I'd love to just get a little bit of recollections from you to say you love your Mondays. What was that process like to get here? Right? Because at one point you were in a job which I don't think you were thrilled with. Like, what would you share to your listeners? I don't know if you've been asked this question on this podcast.
[00:12:06] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I've talked a little bit about it. I think for me, you know, I've always liked working with the business. That part of FP&A, the part that's always been hardest for me, has either been unhealthy environments or feeling like I got to work 24 over seven with the stress of to meet others needs, to meet others demands. It feels different. If I'm working long hours and it's my own business, I'm building my own thing. I enjoy that more. So I think for me, those were the parts that were always tough in FP&A. I still had a boss that one time said, well, we'll get back to question, you know? He commented that it is kind of like investment banking for corporate finance, and that a lot of people get burned out and go elsewhere because budget season, all those things can be long hours. And I hit that point where I was unhappy, not not the work. I had great relationships. A lot of people I liked. There was a lot of projects I worked, but it was an unhealthy environment. And it was they expected you to be on 24 over seven. So for me, it came down to, you know, LinkedIn was a way to find a job, as I've shared before.
[00:13:12] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And over time, I started to get enough opportunities as I built a following that I felt like I could turn it into a business, never planned on starting a business. And then I just kind of went for it. I said, okay, I got enough runway that it either worked for a company and continue to work for somebody else, or kind of control my own destiny. I'm like, there's really no more risk here. I could be laid off tomorrow. I got enough runway to last a while. Why not give it a try and learn? I'm sure I'll be able to find a job if it fails, because I'm focusing on network and building and talking to people and being kind of out and out in the community about FP&A. And so I found, you know, today, I love it. There's a lot of exciting projects I have just like any job. Do I love every day? No. Are there times I'm like, okay, I want less hours? Yes. Are there things where I'm like, okay, I need to manage things better? Of course, that's just life. But, you know, I love the conversations I get to have, and I love a lot of the things I do.
[00:14:07] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Fantastic.
[00:14:08] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So I'm curious. I want to get your take. I mean, do you feel like FP&A, you know, for a career, a lot of people kind of get burned out there that the hours are just often too demanding in the career. I know you have a story you share in your book a little bit about this toward the end of your career.
[00:14:24] Guest: Ron Monteiro: FP&A for me was a massive positive turning point, so I never want to put FP&A in a negative light. I went from again doing this accounting job, which I was crazy busy at month end, and then it was really boring and as clock watching the rest of the month, which that's another signal. If you're ever watching the clock. It's time to look at something different.
[00:14:44] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I've been there. I know what you're talking.
[00:14:45] Guest: Ron Monteiro: My opinion. Then I went too far and it exposed me to a whole new world. Right? Working with marketing, working with sales, working with operations, being able to express myself better. So I think I owe so much to the brilliance of FCA roles. But I remember when I was transitioning out of one of those roles, the person came in and said, hey, tell me what an average day in your life of FP&A is. And I literally laughed, laughed out loud because there is no average day in FP&A. And when you get through month end, you've got a line up of marketing and sales and operations people waiting to talk to you, and then you got back to a forecast, and you're putting in the long hours and you're up till midnight or maybe even later getting this together. And you might present a scenario. And this president of marketing sales don't like it and throw it in the garbage. And you don't necessarily get that credit that you're putting in all these hours and times. There's an unsung hero component to which I think also toughens you. So as I reflect on it, I got to the point where I think it was like, I'm not sure if this is a story you were thinking about, but it was like 11 p.m. during Covid. I'm building a budget. The rest of the finance directors were yelling at me because I was consolidating it. The system wasn't working, so we had to manually put the presentation together. We had the presentation the next day and we weren't at target. So if you put all these X's beside it, it was a disaster, right? Anyway, long story short, we got to the meeting.
[00:16:13] Guest: Ron Monteiro: We ended up pulling it together like most teams are able to do. I sacrificed my family time, sacrifice my personal time, and the meeting did not go exactly that well. Was it my fault? No. There's many combinations of things that led there. So I think for me it's like that people expect my FP&A and finance people to just put in those long hours and it just becomes normal, right? I remember another time where I was a director and my two analysts were in the office until midnight. I was trying to support them. We couldn't get something to tie. I was literally telling them, plug it because I'm done. I'm done. And so I always say, like, if you're FP&A role or finance goal, role gets to that point where you're just done. I think that's where the burnout happens. It's like, how do we draw those lines earlier in our career? Right. And I think me and you probably both made the same mistake. Like my wife always tells me, I missed a lot of my kids early childhood. Right. Like I missed events and things like that. And I had to do it for various reasons. But I also probably had a choice there. So I think I think for me, again, back to our conversation. It's around taking more control, being more intentional with what we do and taking the beauty and brilliance of the role, but also saying there's another side to life and we can control it. That kind of help?
[00:17:38] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I think so. And I agree with you. I still remember I was lucky enough for about a year. I, you know, I've had some FP&A roles where they weren't that demanding in the sense of a lot of late nights. I've had other times where it's been absolutely crazy. And I think when you're getting to do the job, especially when you're with the business, I love it. I love those parts. There's a lot of great parts of FP&A, and I have nothing but gratitude for the experiences I've had. But I agree with you. There's a certain level where you have to take control, and I can remember one time having that conversation. I had a boss that wanted something done, and I looked at him like, look, I'll get it done when I get home. I got a friend's wedding reception tonight. It's one of my best friends and I'm going. And he was like, shocked that I said I was going like that was the culture. He expected me to just keep working because it was for the CEO the next morning. And he almost, you know, told me I had to stay.
[00:18:27] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And I'm like, okay, if this guy tells me I have to stay, I'm quitting. Yeah, like and I may not have done that early in my career, but it was like, no, there's a line here and I'm not going to cross it. You have to find that balance of, you know what? What you're willing to do in the sense of how many hours, how many sacrifices you're willing to make. And it's personal for each of us. There's not a right answer to that. You're kind of going back. We mentioned, you know, a lot of people that work in FP&A and hopefully not many that are listening to this podcast, because I would hope most people that are listening to this podcast enjoy their enjoy their work and they're listening to get better, but would love to get your thoughts when you talk love Mondays. I know you mentioned a four part framework. So somebody maybe struggling or, you know, thinking this really isn't the ideal job for me. I'd rather be doing something else. What do you recommend? What's the kind of process you tell them to go through?
[00:19:19] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Yeah, and just the backstory is like when I went through it, it was messy, right? And I'm sure the same thing. It's not like I was like, here's my four step process I'm going to follow. It was not that like, this is more rewinding and saying, how can I help others follow a certain path? So the first thing I always say is find your purpose, right? And again, that's a pretty nebulous topic. But there's a cool frame. There's a few frameworks in there. One is called ikigai, which is the Japanese word. And it has four questions. What do you love to do? What does the world need? What are you good at and what can you get paid for? Okay, so if you hit all four of those, you found what's called your ikigai, your reason to wake up, your reason to love Mondays.
[00:20:03] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And this is again, one more time. I just want to make sure.
[00:20:06] Guest: Ron Monteiro: So and maybe I'll ask, let's do this live. So, Paul, what do you love to do? And maybe put a little bit of a finance lens on it. What do you love to do?
[00:20:15] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Tired of sitting through sales pitches disguised as professional development? Same here. That's why I'm heading to the AFP FP&A Forum, March 17th to 19th in Austin, where it's all about real, actionable insights. We're talking AI process efficiency, strategic planning, finance, communication. Practical takeaways. No fluff, just ideas you can actually use to drive results. I'll be there too leading the session. Amp up your scenario planning with Gen AI. If that's a topic you're excited about, let's connect. Head to AFPonline.org and use code FPAGuy2025 for $200 off. See you in Austin.
[00:20:58] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I love learning new formulas in Excel because I'm a nerd. I love teaching people and I love business partnering, having those relationships with the business, especially when you're talking strategy and how to kind of grow and improve things.
[00:21:12] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Amazing. Okay. And what does the world need? Like, think similar context.
[00:21:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. I mean, there's lots of finance people that need to be better at Excel, that need to improve their skills. They could save themselves hours, you know, Power Query, other things. I know you've seen that. You've seen people that have saved time from, you know, training and things we've taught.
[00:21:33] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Yeah. And just a little interjection. One of our latest training sessions, Paul, actually had somebody blow their brains out. Wow. That's going to save ours. Okay, so that's two questions. So what do you love. You talked about what does the world need. We agree. Hey, they need it. What are you good at. Right. So are you good at Excel and teaching. And look I'm just going to answer that for you because it's obvious. Yes you are. Okay. So you've hit three of those quadrants and then the last one is what can you get paid for. We both got to pay our bills, etc..
[00:22:04] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I hope it's paying my bills, otherwise I'm in trouble.
[00:22:08] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Yeah. Think about how brilliantly that fits into your equation to say how you do it. And I'm actually looking at the page. I have it and you can Google it if you want. But if you, if you love that you found your ikigai, if you found just, hey, what do you love and what are you good at? Maybe it's a passion. If you found what do you love and what the world needs. Maybe it's a mission, but this kind of rounds out four different ways. So it's a very introspective way to sit down and just journal on it and journal on it again and come back to it. It's not like, hey, like like we're doing again. Rewind for your case. But if let's say you don't know, it's working through that. So that's one way. And what that helps in Paul and like what it helps with is even if a student calls me from the University of Toronto and says, hey, can you talk to me about a career? I would say yes, because it's in my purpose, right? So what that does is the first thing is purpose. What gives you joy? What do you want to do more of? Right. So that's step one. Step two is okay. Then how do you build a bridge? Let's say it's very different in what you're currently doing. What's the bridge to get there? For me it was doing some free training sessions for organizations.
[00:23:17] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Right. Me and you met at a webinar where we were speaking for free, right? Neither of us were getting paid, but that's building the muscles, right? Crossing the bridge, getting to think about like when we first started three, four years ago, it felt hard to start our businesses, right? Like it didn't feel real, right? I didn't feel like I had the confidence. So it's like, what are those little things you can do to build a bridge to your next phase? And again, I always say, look, you were working full time when you were building a bridge. I was doing the same. So we're not saying go quit and stuff like that. It's like, what are the little things you can do every day? Learn a new formula except in Excel every day. For me, you see all the books behind me. I read a lot to build my confidence. So that's step two. And then when you feel that you're in the stage where, okay, I've got this, I feel like I can run my business. I've got enough potential clients. The next step is burn the boats, meaning you're going all in, right? So maybe tell us your all in moment. When did you figure out. Here's when I'm ready to quit my job, and I think I can make it my own. Tell me, what was that like for you?
[00:24:21] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So my journey was kind of happened over, over a couple of months, but really there were a few things that I say are kind of turning points. You know, first started to build a following really found I enjoyed some of the things I was doing. Maybe I could turn this into a business at some point. Then there were probably 3 or 4 turning points. First somebody reached out to me and said, hey, I want to do a sponsored collaboration on LinkedIn. I think they offered me $150, like to, you know, pay the bills. No. And so I said yes. And then someone else reached out to me and said, look, I know a company that's looking for about 15 hours of work. I can do that on the side. My job was only really being 40 hours a week at the time. And so I was like, okay, I can do that. And it was part time gig. Then you reached out to me and said, hey, I need someone to help do an Excel course. I could put that together. And then I'd say the kind of final turning point I believe it was in December of 21. Three different companies in one week reached out to me. Two of them asked me to apply for a role, and the third one talked about doing a big collaboration. And so at this point, I went to my wife and I'm like, I think I can turn this into a business. She kind of looked at me like I was crazy because I hadn't really raised any, you know, I hadn't earned any money at this point. And so we talked about it for about six weeks. And then one day in February, she goes, I'm good. If you want to start your business, go ahead. I go, are you sure? Because I'm going to put in my notice this morning. I put in my notice that day, didn't leave the company full time for about four months. I stayed with them on kind of a combination of full and part time and then started my own business. And that was June of 2022.
[00:25:52] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Yeah. And where that's burned, the bolts, you know, stems from is they would say in olden times, like when, you know, when you land on an island or on land, you would literally burn your boat, meaning there's no going back. So that's the whole thing to saying, I love your story to say, hey, you, you built over time and you said, okay, when am I confident I can do it? And so that's an important step. And it's not just about like, you know, burning your boats to start a business like I did. It could just be, hey, I'm going to move from one company to another. I love that, but I have a toxic boss like we talked about. It could be like, I'm in accounting and I want to move to whatever your version of that. I even have somebody who was a marketing director at a company. She's now selling journals and she's teaching yoga. You know, there's tweaks, but there's also wholesale changes. We're talking about whatever your listeners are thinking. Maybe I want to get just a couple percent more appear, and I have an interest in something in the company. Go ask for it. Right. So it doesn't have to be like extreme, like the two of us could just be a tweak.
[00:26:56] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well, speaking of that, I mean, I'll tell a story that's getting a little kind of ready to do something else other than FP&A kind of change. I remember mentioning to a boss I always thought product was interesting. I knew all our product marketing team and I had commented one day to him, you know, I've thought about moving into the product team. That'd be kind of fun. And basically he's like, nope, not happening here. Like you're too valuable. And it was kind of a compliment, but at the same time, like, really, because I think it would have been kind of fun to have that new challenge and to do something different. Not that I didn't like FP&A, Apna. But, you know, I think like all of us, we have times when we want to do something different. Maybe the candle just isn't burning as bright. Maybe we need a new challenge. Whether it's a company, whether it's a role, whatever it might be. Right? There's nothing wrong with switching careers. Even if you're passionate, if you feel like it's time for a change.
[00:27:49] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Yeah, it is cool, your story is cool. And it reminded me I was sitting in a meeting, okay, finance director a few years ago, maybe 11 years ago, and me and my peers were on the finance leadership team. And the CFO looks at us and she goes the person who was leading a course called Cash College teaching cash to 200 people just went on sick leave. She's like, who wants to lead it? And it was one of those awkward moments where everybody's looking away. Something in me just said, let's go. And I put my hand up. The best career experience I've ever had. Probably the hardest experience I also had as well. What? So I had to go interview universities, develop a curriculum, say, how the heck am I going to engage sales and marketing folks for two days teaching them about the cash conversion cycle and things like that? But it was a really cool lesson to say volunteer for things that maybe are in that interest zone, even if they're hard. And that experience in itself, the confidence I built because I went all in, was probably the reason I had the confidence as well, to start my own business and to teach my.
[00:28:57] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I appreciate that. And so let's just kind of recap the four things were, again, if you could just run through those, I know we have burn your bridges for others. I don't think we have. So that's what I wanted.
[00:29:10] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Yeah. Fantastic. And I don't think we've gone to step four. So I'll go to step four. So step one: find your purpose. Find what you're more energetic towards. You know, think about that. Step two is build your bridge to start doing more of what you love. Step three is burn the boats where you go all in. And step four is flex your muscle. So in other words, when you first start, it's okay. I had a vision that I just want to do storytelling for finance, teach communication skills and thought. My client then says, hey, can you teach Excel? And I was like, I can, but it's going to be bad. So let me find somebody who could do it at a world class level. And I asked you when you did it. So flexing my muscles in this case became okay. In order to sustain a business, I need to offer more than one course. How do I do it? Then I was asked to facilitate leadership training sessions. Okay, that's another potential part of my business. Now I'm facilitating CEO meetings. So again, what I've tried to do is say, what are the things I still love to do that are in that wheelhouse. Right. And same thing with you. Like you started a podcast and you working with vendors and you were building a newsletter. So flexing your muscles, being open to change, adapting to change and thriving during change. Okay, so those are the four steps.
[00:30:22] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. And any kind of tips or things you found as you're going through the four steps that people should watch out for, like, hey, you know, be aware of this or these are things that often people struggle with.
[00:30:37] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Yeah. So what I would say is, let's say you're an FP&A person in a role. You got a Monday to Friday, 9 to 5 or 9 to 9 to nine role, whatever that role is.
[00:30:46] Host: Paul Barnhurst: In my case, it's 4 a.m. to 5 p.m..
[00:30:49] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So what I would say pay attention to your energy as you go through the week. Right. And same thing we do when you said, look, there's parts of our entrepreneurial job that are not the most fun. So pay attention to the things you just feel like you're in flow. You have energy towards. Your time is passing by fast, and that's a massive clue to the thing that you actually enjoy doing. Sometimes we just do stuff unconsciously because we've done it for so many years. That's the first thing I would say and try to do more of that. The second is I interview 20 people at the back of the book. They're called Monday Mavericks. You're one of them. I truly tried to find people who love what they did in very different disciplines. Ceos for individuals. Many of them actually had a finance and FP&A background to start with. So it's pretty cool to see that. But a couple of things came through. One is they thought back to what did they love to do when they were young. And I think you always liked math and things like that. Like, you know, when I reflected on that. So one is there was something they loved to do as a child. Life has taken over and it's pushed them in so many different directions we don't even know. You know, life has a lot of ways to do that.
[00:31:54] Guest: Ron Monteiro: So it's reflecting on what gives you joy. And many of them, like when they came back to that, it started bringing more joy. The second is surrounding yourself with people who are uplifters right to say it is possible. So when I first started my business, many people told me, what are you doing? Like you've got a secure job, you're getting a lot of pay and blah blah blah. I had a lot of other people encouraged me. Right. So find the circle. They say you're the average of the five people you surround yourself with. I know it's just saying it's not exactly true, but we do get a lot from our network. So I think the network is really important. And then I think it's back to what we were talking about networking, just being open to ask for help. Right. And a big part of me was asking somebody to coach me because I'd never gone through it. And you've introduced me to so many people. The reason I wrote the book is Assef Masani, who's a big influencer like you, was writing a book. So I started believing it's possible. And he introduced me to the publisher. Right. So there's many different things, but a lot of it is just being bold and saying, I'm going to take charge of my life, and here's what I'm going to do about it.
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[00:34:13] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I like what you said about taking charge and doing it, and I think it's interesting how you mentioned, you know, a lot of them went back to what they did as a child. I did like I've always liked numbers, statistics, sports. And funny enough, I always enjoyed arguing as a kid. I know that shocks you. I knew you'd laugh if I said that. So I always thought it was going to be a lawyer when I grew up. But as I got older, I realized I don't want to be a lawyer. But when I was to say, what did you want to be as a kid? Like were you all, did you like teaching when you were a kid? I mentioned you were very shy and kind of scared. So what were outside of.
[00:34:45] Guest: Ron Monteiro: You know, you know, what's your passions? Yeah. What's interesting is so I wanted to be a soccer player.
[00:34:52] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I knew that.
[00:34:53] Guest: Ron Monteiro: So at my age, my young age that I am, I don't think I could do that anymore. But I also always loved the team aspect within a sport or within work or things like that. So I always wanted to be that coach, be that leader, and I think this job affords us to do that. And then, you know, as I think about like whenever somebody needed help, I would love to teach them and help them, whether it's a pure in grade three, in math or, you know, now it'd be like, hey, I'd love to sit down with you. And, you know, I would do that for my friends at work. They start and they'd have a financial responsibility, let's say marketing or sales. And they didn't understand the PNL. I'd be like, I'd love to sit down with you and walk you through it. Whereas other peers for me would be like, why do I have to do that? So again, there's so many different clues at different stages to say, what do we love to do?
[00:35:39] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, no, it's a great point that there's a lot of clues at different stages. And, you know, the reality is, like you went back at the beginning, it's about what you love to do and what you can be paid for. If you love something that isn't going to pay anything, it's really hard to turn that into a career. So I think there's an aspect to this of just being realistic and being honest in that assessment. What would you do that.
[00:36:06] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Yeah. And so I agree with that 100% to say yes. Like we got to find something that we get paid, we get paid for. But I think we both learned is if you go in for the money, the money's not going to be as great and the fulfillment is not going to be as great. I'll give you an example. When I first started, I needed to get paid. I'd do anything to get paid. So I wrote articles on subjects that I didn't like, like I was just like pulling teeth. I did it and I needed to do it to get paid, but I didn't love it. So if I did more and more of that, I would start to love my Mondays less. So it's about finding things that you do for the love of it, but also pay right and going in not for the money, going in for the joy of doing it. Like so. Me and you have done so many free webinars and training sessions. You do this Excel thing every week on LinkedIn live. You probably enjoy it. It's a lot of work, I'm sure, but it's back to like, money's important, but don't do it for money, you know?
[00:37:06] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, well, you know, I still remember I had an opportunity one time where I had been offered an extremely good Package a really good money, and that next year I would have probably doubled what I was making and I was seriously considering it. My wife said, you know, you really need to take the new opportunity. You're not happy where you're at anymore, like you're not happy there. Why would you consider this? And it was just that reminder. When you're making decisions, it's not about money. Because at the end of the day, if it's just about money, at some point that's not enough. That could be enough. For a while, we could all do certain things for money, but at the end of the day, money isn't happiness.
[00:37:46] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Yeah, just you're reminding me of a story, and I'm going to try and tell it on the fly. I don't think I've ever told this story. So let's say we've got Paul Barnhurst. I want you to. Just me and you. We get a training session in Hawaii, and we see this person on the beach barbecuing the fish. Okay. And I go to the person and say, oh, wow, what is that? And it's tuna or something like that. I'm like, man, that's good. Why don't we go into business and build a factory? And he goes, why would I do that? And so we're like okay, so we're going to make a lot of money and we're going to expand it everywhere. And anyway the story goes on for a bit and it builds. And then he then that person on the beach says, so why would we be doing all this? And the guy goes, oh, so we can sit on the beach to go back, right? So sometimes we just get caught in this corporate ladder of money and all that. But the moral of the story is that fellow was sitting on the beach enjoying his life. And you do all these things for until retirement in order to sit back on that beach. So sometimes it's like it's thinking about, are we doing things we love, right? And the story is probably way better told, but I think you get the moral of the story I'm talking about, right?
[00:38:57] Host: Paul Barnhurst: There is a moral to that story. No, I totally get what you're saying. Sometimes we're right where we want to be, and we don't even realize it because we're so focused on other things.
[00:39:08] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Yeah. And it reminded me one of the other things you asked me the question. What were some common elements in people who loved Monday's gratitude. And, for example, Jim Allen, who's the ex-president of Starbucks. He's the CEO of T-Mobile, CEO of Toms shoes. He talked about the biggest turning point in his life was when him and his family every night would say, what are the three things they were grateful for that day? And, you know, Oprah has gratitude journals. It was a pretty cool thing for me to interview all 20, including you, and say one thing. They genuinely happy and grateful, even though many of them have big challenges in their lives.
[00:39:46] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, it's really funny. It goes back to attitude, right? I've heard it said an attitude of gratitude. And I think gratitude has a lot to do with your attitude. There's a correlation. And a big part of being happy isn't, you know, the job we have isn't the situation we're in. It's how we choose to approach things. Doesn't mean we shouldn't search for the passion. It doesn't mean we don't want to be happy in our job. But We we can control a lot of it by just our attitude and being grateful and looking for the positive things in life, regardless of what role we're in and whether it's two in the morning and you're we're yelling, plug it or whatever it might be because I've been there to where the boss is, just like, just plug it, I'm done. I'm like, yeah, yeah, it's midnight. I can't even think anymore. Just stick a number in there and we'll deal with it later.
[00:40:36] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Yeah. And one of the things I've learned is to reframe things. Right. And one of my mentors, Anne Gomez, who's amazing and she does her training business. She always says instead of saying, I have to, she consciously says, I get to. Right. So for me, before we went live, so to speak, you were asking me, hey, what was it like? And I was like, oh, I landed for Vancouver at 10 p.m. and I had to take my wife to the airport at 3 a.m. and then and at 7 a.m. I was downtown again, and we both had a good chuckle. And I said, but we're not complaining. That's what we want to do. I got to go to Vancouver. It's not like I have to. I got to do two keynote speeches on Sunday. Not like I had to. Right. And that's practice. It's practicing that. So when I find myself tilting to negative. Okay. What can I appreciate about that?
[00:41:23] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well, you know, it's funny, as you said, that it made me realize earlier today, I was thinking because two days ago, I had no podcasts on the calendar today and this morning. And I have to do, you know, a couple podcasts like There Goes All My Time and just you mentioning that reminded me, it's like I get to like, this is fun. I enjoy doing it. Now, are there other things that I'll have to figure out at a later time when I'm going to do them? Sure. That's more of kind of, but just have that positive. Actually, I get to do something I love because I love doing podcasting or the other one. So many people I could never be good at, Excel or storytelling or whatever it may be in FP&A that they want to be good at visualizations, right? We've all heard of business partnering, you know, communicating. And I love your reframing. We talked about the growth mindset. And, great book is I'm not good yet, or I haven't mastered that yet. Or I haven't learned about Excel yet. It's just that little framing says I'll get there. And the reality is, 99% of the time we can. Am I ever going to be Michael Jordan? No. That ship has sailed. Right. Are you ever going to be the greatest soccer player in the world? No. There are certain things we're just not going to be able to do. Either genetics, time, whatever. But generally, if we're willing to frame it right and put in the time, we can do virtually anything we want to within reason.
[00:42:41] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Yeah. It's funny, I was sitting around the table yesterday facilitating a group of executives, and there's a CFO who's actually pretty well spoken, and he made the statement, I'm not going to public speaking. And you know what I do when I hear that type of stuff? I always say put the word. Yet at the end of it, because if you make a definitive statement like, I'm not going to public speaking, you basically seal the deal. If you put the word yet, it's telling your brain, yes, it is possible, right? And what's been cool about working with you is three years ago, your soft skills were probably average. Now they're top of the charts, right? Because you've invested in it. My technical skills were bottom of the chart, and now I can do an Xlookup and I can use unique, and I can use all these things that I've been exposed to just watching you. And it's my skills have gone up a little. I'm still not, frankly, a big interest of mine, but I've gotten a lot better because now I believe it's possible. I sat there and I was like, why would I go from Xlookup to Vlookup to Xlookup? But have you watched me do it four times? Sometimes, like, okay, Paul, I'm going to follow along with you. I learned it, so it's being open to it. So Carol Dweck's book in podcast is phenomenal in terms of teaching that story.
[00:43:54] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I think we're probably about time for this. So what I'd love to do is just get your last, last thoughts you want to share. You know something about the book FP&A just up to you where you'd like to take it. But just take a minute and some last thoughts before we wrap up.
[00:44:09] Guest: Ron Monteiro: I'd say my last thought is, you know, when you write a book, it can be a pretty overwhelming project. There's many times I didn't believe I could do it. And what I did was I said, I'm going to write for 30 minutes every day. So I'd say advice to listeners is if there's something you're going after and maybe it feels big, what's the one step towards it? What's that one step? What's that one commitment every day. So I think to me that would be pretty cool. And then the other thing is I'm really proud of, you know, I'm honored to have you be write the foreword. But I'm also so proud to have Adina Samuels, who was my editor, write it because, you know, I really feel like it takes a team. And she took that so seriously when I first talked to her, she said it's a dream to edit a book. She was working weekends, nights. She pulled what I would say is my average writing to what I'm really proud of. And I would say, if anyone's interested, Look, the books on Amazon. I'm really proud of this book, and I'm. My goal for writing is to help change people's lives, because my life got changed and many people get their right.
[00:45:18] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Grab and hold it up so we can see it.
[00:45:20] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Yeah. So you can see it over there. And here's what it looks like. So it's bright yellow. Love Mondays!. And if you're not a book reader, hopefully this podcast would help, but it really is around how do we think? Be more intentional, find the right people to surround yourself with and love Mondays and every other day.
[00:45:39] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I only love Mondays if I'm making a lot of money so I can sit on the beach, not not catching that fish.
[00:45:45] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Hopefully in time, Paul. Hopefully in time.
[00:45:48] Host: Paul Barnhurst: No, I really like that story. I enjoyed chatting today and just, you know, if anyone's listening to this and they want to learn more about Ron, you can find them on LinkedIn. I know you have a website for your book as well, right?
[00:46:00] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Yeah, it's Love Mondays! Book.com I love Mondays. Monday. Maybe I'll send it. I'll send it to you and we can put it in the show notes.
[00:46:07] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, we'll definitely add that to the show notes. So again, thank you for joining me. It was great to chat. I hope our audience enjoys the conversation as much as I did. So thanks for carving out some time, Ron.
[00:46:16] Guest: Ron Monteiro: Thank you so much Paul. Really appreciate it.
[00:46:19] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thanks for listening to FP&A tomorrow. If you enjoyed the show, please leave us a five star rating and a review on your podcast platform of choice. This allows us to continue to bring you great guests from around the globe. As a reminder, you can earn CPE credit by going to earmarkcpe.com, downloading the app, taking a short quiz, and getting your CPE certificate to earn continuing education credits for the FPAC certification. Take the quiz on earmark and contact me the show host for further details.