Business Partnering Strategies for Women in FP&A to Influence Decisions and Get Promoted with Ritu Saxena
In this episode of FP&A Tomorrow, host Paul Barnhurst (aka The FP&A Guy) sits down with Ritu Saxena, a chartered accountant, career coach, and founder of Project Upgrade Her. Ritu shares insights on transitioning into business partnering, building a strong personal brand, and empowering women to elevate their careers with confidence.
Ritu is an accomplished finance professional and career coach with over 13 years of experience spanning investment banking, Big Four consulting, and commercial finance in India and New Zealand. She is the founder of Project Upgrade Her, a platform dedicated to helping women increase their career confidence and earning potential. Ritu has also been recognized as one of the Top 20 Chartered Accountants to Watch in Australia and New Zealand.
Expect to Learn:
Going beyond budgeting and forecasting to provide strategic insights.
How to transition into business partnering and key skills required.
Why it’s essential for career growth to build a strong personal brand.
The power of networking and how it can open unexpected doors in your career.
Strategies for advocating for yourself and stepping into leadership roles.
Here are a few relevant quotes from the episode:
“Meeting people where they are and speaking their language is what makes a great business partner.”
“The ability to be concise and communicate the ‘why’ behind the numbers is an underrated but essential skill.”
“Trust is built when you consistently deliver value, flag risks proactively, and help stakeholders make better decisions.”
Ritu shared invaluable advice on transitioning into business partnering, building a strong personal brand, and taking control of your career growth. She highlights the importance of advocating for yourself and never letting your job title define your potential.
The AFP FP&A Forum:
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In Today’s Episode
[02:25] - Introduction to Ritu Saxena
[04:04] - What Makes Great FP&A?
[07:06] - Ritu’s Unconventional Career Path
[11:51] - Project Upgrade Her: A Mission to Empower Women
[16:51] - Breaking Into Business Partnering
[24:52] - The Three Key Skills for Business Partnering Success
[33:28] - Personal Branding for Career Growth
[45:36] - Must-Have FP&A Skills
[48:40] - Fun Segment: Getting to Know Ritu
[52:31] - Final Advice from Ritu
Full Show Transcript
[00:01:53] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Hello everyone. Welcome to For Tomorrow, where we delve into the world of financial planning and analysis, examining its current state and future prospects. I'm your host, Paul Barnhurst, aka The FP&A Guy, and I'll be guiding you through the evolving landscape of FP&A. Each week, we're joined by thought leaders, industry experts, and practitioners who share their insights and experiences, helping us navigate today's complexities and tomorrow's uncertainties. This week, I'm thrilled to be joined on the show by Ritu Saxena. Welcome to the show.
[00:02:31] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Thank you Paul. I am so excited to be here.
[00:02:34] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I'm excited to have you. This will be a fun conversation. And what time in the morning is it for you?
[00:02:39] Guest: Ritu Saxena: So it's 7:30 a.m. and I'm based in New Zealand, across the world from you. So this is going to be interesting.
[00:02:47] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Saturday. That's dedication.
[00:02:49] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Thank you. Now this I mean I was like, let's make this work. And really looking forward to our conversation.
[00:02:55] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I'm excited for it too. So let me give me give a little bit of your background. Chartered accountant and career coach with over 13 years of experience in investment banking, big four consulting and commercial finance across India and New Zealand. She has intentionally shaped her career, progressing from consultant to becoming a strategic and commercial business partner, which we'll definitely get into later. Beyond her corporate career, she has held leadership and governance roles on NGO boards and committees, including UN women and CA Auckland Emerging Leaders. Her contributions to the profession and community earned her recognition as one of the top 20 CA's to watch in Australia and New Zealand. Impressive as the founder of Project Upgrade Her - a career elevation platform designed with wok lens. She helps women gain clarity and confidence to land high paying, strength aligned roles by mastering strategic self marketing and advocacy skills and I cover it all.
[00:03:59] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Yes, that's spot on. Thanks, Paul, for that amazing introduction.
[00:04:03] Host: Paul Barnhurst: You're welcome Ritu. Let's jump in. What does great FP&A look like? Let's start there.
[00:04:08] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Oh, yeah. So whenever people talk about FP&A, the first two words that come to people's mind is oh, do you mean budgeting and forecasting? That is what I mean is narrative around whenever people just hear it. But then it's so much more than that. I mean, a great FP&A is actually being able to provide strategic insights that drive business decisions. And I call it like a bridge between finance and the business, where we are turning complex data into clear and actionable recommendations. And the best FP&A teams, they don't just react, they are proactive. They are constantly identifying risk. They are identifying opportunities. They are guiding leaders even before asking. And at the heart of it, it is strong business partnering. It is strong storytelling and confidence to challenge the status quo. So that is what makes a great FP&A. And of course, it's the people, you know, like great people with great backgrounds and great experience. Just amp it up even further.
[00:05:14] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And I like something you said in there about being willing to challenge people and being proactive to a certain extent, go hand in hand and are just so important. It's easy to be reactive and it's hard to challenge people. It is hard to say, look, this doesn't make sense and here's why. Let's explore some other options versus just go with it, especially early in your career. So I appreciate that because I know there are times I wish I would have maybe pushed a little bit more on certain things to go. Yeah, it really is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it. And here's why. Versus everybody in the room loves it. All right. Well we'll see what happens.
[00:05:49] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's one of those things that, you know, business partner is a very broad title which shouldn't hold you back. I mean, a lot of people think that they are like at the analyst level, you are kind of held down with your title. But when it comes to business partnering, it's more like a strategic mindset, you know? So challenging becomes like a norm of your role. And obviously we'll delve into it deeper. But this is what I understood later on in life. Like your title doesn't hold you back in terms of challenging the stakeholders.
[00:06:20] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. No, it's a great point, right? I mean, it's like so many people think, you know, you have to have a title to be a leader. Manager has a title. A leader can be anybody.
[00:06:30] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Exactly. Exactly. And this is something that obviously, I have probably learned over time that hierarchies are there, but how to navigate it, that comes with a lot of experience and a lot of, I would say, building your reputation amongst stakeholders to be able to challenge and then hierarchies mean nothing.
[00:06:51] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. When you build those relationships. Yeah. Hierarchy doesn't matter as much, especially if you're in a company with a healthy culture. Yeah. Where you know that it's acceptable to have those frank conversations.
[00:07:04] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:07:06] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So you earned your degree in accounting, but you started your career in M&A. How did that happen versus accounting?
[00:07:13] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Oh, so this is just as a brief answer. Like most of my career, most of my entire education has not been linear. And I think it's important to touch upon this point because if there is someone out there who is probably lost and they don't know what is next for them, I think this story might really help. So I actually never even dreamt of being a CPA. So I am actually a science student and being raised in an Indian background where, you know, you're expected to either be an engineer or a doctor when you are growing up. I just took up science in my junior college. But then I knew one thing that I don't understand biology. And I can't be a doctor. I can't be an engineer. I just want to be successful. I just want to be rich. I just want to, you know, look after my family.
[00:08:01] Host: Paul Barnhurst: At all, successful and rich. Not ask much.
[00:08:04] Guest: Ritu Saxena: I like it, and I was just clear, okay, this is my goal. This is what I want. But I didn't know how to get there. And then, it was after a couple of years that I'm like, no, I want to just do probably I'll get into a bachelor's of commerce, which is like a little bit of accounting degree. But in India, you can't be an average person. You have to be doing something more. So then I just took up chartered accountancy to start off with, and the mindset with which I went was, let's give it a shot. If I clear my exams, then probably it's meant for me. And then I started doing Murcia and then after five years when I became a chartered accountant. During that time I was also doing my articleship or my internship in which I was doing audit and taxation and accounting. And that's when I realized, oh shit, I don't like this. But I also was exposed to the whole world of corporate finance as a subject when I was studying for CA. And that's when I realized, okay, there are different aspects of finance. So maybe this could be something that I could explore. And my entire gut, like one of the greatest things that I did early on in my career without any sort of guidance is I used to network a lot. And for me, at that point in time, this was back in 2010, that networking and just calling your friends and asking. So I remember asking my family members and my friends that, okay, do you know anyone who could be doing this sort of work? And then I was getting some contacts to start kickstart my investment banking career.
[00:09:36] Guest: Ritu Saxena: So that's that's the way I navigated it. I'm like, okay, I don't like this, so maybe I'll like this. It was never about I want this. I was never exactly clear. I just knew my goal about how I want to feel, how I want to be as a professional, but I just didn't know how. And that is what helped me break into investment banking. It was a small boutique firm. I wasn't earning as much as my other chartered accountant friends who had just graduated, and they were already working for these big banks. But something that helped me is an advice which was given by someone who told me that whenever you're starting your career, either a great role or a big brand really helps. And with that boutique investment banking experience, that was a great role, which helped me get into the Big Four. And that's how I started my entire corporate finance career, which was basically valuation and business modeling, helping with transactions and more. On the corporate finance side of things, I would say the part of networking kind of helped me right in the beginning of my career, and even today it's exactly the same, which is helping me navigate different roles. And yeah, now with the power of networking, we are right now recording a podcast here.
[00:10:53] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, no, it's amazing how network, you have opportunities all over the world, how much the world has shrunk with platforms like LinkedIn, with video, with, you know, everything that's changed so much. You think 50 years ago this would have never happened ten years ago, probably. No. You know, today it's just a different world. Yeah.
[00:11:13] Guest: Ritu Saxena: I mean, really talking to anyone from, like, opposite side of the world, like. Like the way we are. Never did I even think, like, ten years back. That was a possibility. But here we are.
[00:11:24] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. Well, if I look at for, let's say, you know, middle of the day for me, I've had conversations with you in New Zealand, someone in Egypt, I owe someone in the UK. And I've had a couple of conversations with people in the US today. Right. So it just shows how global it is. Like I never, you know, pictured that when I started my career. And now that's just common. I'm talking to people all over the place. So it's definitely exciting. So let's talk about Project Upgrade Her for a minute. You started that. You do career coaching for women. How did that come about? Where does that kind of fit into your story here?
[00:12:01] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Yeah. Okay. So maybe I'll start by just talking a little bit about what the platform is all about. So Project Upgrade Her is like my little baby, which I've been growing and it's a career elevation platform or a career education platform specifically for women to upgrade their career confidence and their earning potential. It is especially for those women who feel stuck in their careers and who doubt their abilities. So the core of all this work is actually helping women in being able to advocate for themselves and market themselves confidently. And this was kind of born out of my own struggles of navigating imposter syndrome and self doubt. Early on in my career, and it kind of held me back for a very long time. And whether it meant, you know, career growth or financial growth from that perspective, and there was something inside of me which like for the past couple of years, always wanted to give back or, you know, like help more people at a scale. And that's when I started creating content around, like, you know, three years back, just sharing what has helped me grow in my career. So I was like, okay, I can wait till I become a CEO or I can just start sharing my journey or what is helping me today.
[00:13:21] Guest: Ritu Saxena: And, to my surprise, when I started sharing my content, it kind of resonated with a lot of women of color, especially because what happens is that you do culture, upbringing. There is that specific, I would say hindrance to be able to talk about yourself and advocate for yourself, but I'd be in your normal 1 to 1 conversations with your managers or even during interviews. So I realized that this had held me back. And this is what women need the most help with, you know, in developing confidence in their abilities and being able to talk about it in a way which is authentic to them. So all in all, around two and a half, three years of doing this and absolutely incredible personal growth journey as well for me, because I am slowly learning about people and their, you know, emotions through through this and being able to help and see women actually get ahead in their careers, that has been very, very fulfilling.
[00:14:21] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I would imagine it's always rewarding to see people get ahead. I do a lot of training, and it's always great when people say, hey, something you taught me helped. Right? It made me better. I think we all, you know, I believe a life of service is the best life lived, and that involves helping others, whatever way that may be. It's different for all of us, regardless of whether we're doing a business partnering, accounting, engineering, whatever. You know, finding ways to serve others is the going to be the most rewarding part of life is.
[00:14:50] Guest: Ritu Saxena: And somehow, even for me, business partnering as a role is kind of a natural extension of what I am actually already, you know, good at. And I actually enjoy that and helping people at the core of it, just knowing yourself that, okay, this is what you enjoy. And then, you know, work becomes joy for you. Like even my day job is joy because it's a big element of it is helping people solve problems, and which is also something that I'm doing with Project Upgrade Her or like you're helping women. So it's all intertwined.
[00:15:20] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Now, and that's great when you can intertwine it all and you can be passionate about what you're doing, because we've all been in those roles throughout our career where you're like, all right, this is not fun. I'm not enjoying what I'm doing. Like, I'm sure as you were studying on some of the accounting stuff, right? It's like I can't see myself doing debits and credits for Credits for 20 years.
[00:15:39] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Yeah, absolutely. And that's the time you start questioning yourself.
[00:15:43] Host: Paul Barnhurst: What's out there that might be listening.
[00:15:45] Guest: Ritu Saxena: And, that's the thing, right? Like we always think about the sunk cost fallacy like that. Oh, I have already done this. Now I need to continue. And that is where, you know, mentoring and coaching really helps. And this is what even helped me navigate my career within finance. Like people, people think that you could be just stuck in the same accounting, if you don't enjoy it. But there are so many ways that you can pivot within finance.
[00:16:14] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well, and that's just it, right? I mean, if you like accounting, great. Enjoy it. If you don't like it, there's lots of ways you can leverage that background to do other things in finance. And if finance isn't the right area at all, like you said, it's a sunk cost. Go find what your passion is.
[00:16:31] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Exactly.
[00:16:32] Host: Paul Barnhurst: You can all find something that we enjoy. Does that mean we're going to love every day. Job's gonna be great. No, we're gonna work. We're still gonna have those days. It's like, I don't want to be here. I have them running my own business. Right? There's times when it's like, I want to go do another interview, and there's times when I'm super excited for it. It's part of why let's talk business partnering a little bit. You know, you talk a lot about what it takes to transition into more of a business partnering role. And I get people all the time wanting to transition into FP&A, which a lot of people, you know, generally is thought of as a business partner role. Yes, there are some report areas, but that's what most people think of it about. So let's talk a little bit about how you made the transition and what you tell people.
[00:17:14] Guest: Ritu Saxena: So basically everything that I've done in my career is very, very intentional. Like when I had moved from consulting to the business side of things, within an electricity company, it was very intentional because I wanted to understand how a business works. You know, moving from consulting where you're just, you know, preparing reports and not knowing what's happening that kind of really bothered me. So for me, it was firstly understanding what I really want from my career. So even though in the role where I was already in a FP&A role, which is analyst and I progressed to a manager, but I realized one thing that even though my title was a manager over there, I was still not able to reach out to senior stakeholders, and they were not able to reach out to me because of the smaller size of the company. And that's when I started realizing that, okay, I need to really go and secure a finance business partner position in a bigger organization where there are more opportunities, there are more business units, there are more problems to solve. So one thing that I had to really convince the interviewers is that I have the communication skills to be able to talk to leaders without any hesitation and be able to convince and influence them. And secondly, do I have the emotional intelligence to be, you know, to be talking to them in, in a way which, you know, serves them. So for this, I had to make sure that in my current role, I'm getting opportunities to work on cross-functional projects where I'm able to deal with even different, stakeholders, whether I know sometimes the size of the company limits you, but it's all about trying to find opportunity with what you have, especially if you're trying to transition because you have to convince the interviewer or the hiring manager that you're able to deal with people, you're able to talk, and you're able to negotiate and influence them.
[00:19:18] Guest: Ritu Saxena: These are the key skills that a good business partner needs. So, when I was trying to transition that time, I was really trying hard to get my foot into with whichever projects are happening across and talking to like the different business units about their problems. What, how, what are they dealing with? What sort of like how are they making money or how are they trying to fix something? So wherever possible, I was trying to pitch in some like, you know, any process improvement and anything which was able to help them. So that kind of helped me build my career stories to be able to use in my next role out there. So I think it's if you're not getting the opportunity in your current role, try and create it, or at least try and do something transferable like, you know, as I said, it's all around stakeholder management. So whatever you can do to make it transferable, just make it work.
[00:20:18] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Tired of sitting through sales pitches disguised as professional development? Same here. That's why I'm heading to the AFP FP&A Forum, March 17th to 19th in Austin, where it's all about real, actionable insights. We're talking AI process efficiency, strategic planning, finance, communication. Practical takeaways. No fluff, just ideas you can actually use to drive results. I'll be there too leading the session. Amp up your scenario planning with Gen AI. If that's a topic you're excited about, let's connect. Head to AFPonline.org and use code FPAGuy2025 for $200 off. See you in Austin.
[00:21:23] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I still remember I had a guest on the podcast very early on the first podcast episodes I did for FP&A Today. Cameron. And he told a story. It was an accountant coming into a new company, and he was just really interested in understanding things. So on his own, he started analyzing and understanding why the variances were happening. And one day someone was asking something, oh, go ask Cameron. He knows. And you know, he ended up as the head of FP&A there. And now he's, you know, in another role where he's very happy and quickly progressed. And just a great story of being proactive and figuring things out and ending up kind of shaping his career. And I took a little bit more of the I'll just take whatever I can find. I wasn't very intentional in my career, even starting my own business. And it's generally not the best way to, you know, go throughout your career. And so I really like that of being intentional and kind of proactive in finding those projects because they really can help.
[00:22:21] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Yeah. And, that is something which I feel like most of the people get it wrong that if they are at that analyst role level or a title, they don't go beyond the job responsibilities that they have, which is all about reporting numbers, but actually understanding, analyzing that. That is where the cream of the role is. And if your company allows it, and most of the companies are actually they allow you to just, you know, go and talk to business without, you know, hindering your growth back. So that is what really helps people in becoming a future business partner.
[00:23:01] Host: Paul Barnhurst: What is it you love most about business partnering? I think we talked a little bit about this before. You mentioned helping people. Is, is that the part you like the most is just feeling like you're making a difference for the business?
[00:23:13] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Yeah. So if you actually end up in a true business partnering role, true commercial business partnering role, and not a glorified management accounting role, then you will love it. And the reason why I love it is because I can actually see being able to advocate for the business units that I look after and being like a mini CFO or, you know, eyes and ears of it, and being able to influence my stakeholders in a way that you can see the impact of what you're talking about. So, for example, in one of the roles I had actually influenced where we should be getting where should we should be purchasing our electricity contracts within New Zealand, in North Island or in South Island. And that helped me and the business make up the entire portfolio of the electricity contracts that we were buying. So being able to see like a proper like, you know, tangible outcome coming out of those decisions, that is something which is very fulfilling. And at the heart of it, you know, senior leaders are nothing but humans who are just relying on you to give you the right information, to give the right direction and hold them sort of accountable to be in alignment with the strategy. So I think again, it comes back to being that bridge which is helping them, like, okay, I understand you and this is how we are financially restrained or we need to financially navigate to help you get there. And that is very fulfilling because you are seeing the outcome of it. You're seeing within a year's time the outcome of whatever you are proposing to them. So for me, it comes down to that part.
[00:24:52] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I'm curious. We've talked a little bit about the skills, but if you were to list the top three skills, let's just start with three. That someone needs to be a great business partner. From your perspective, what are those? And then the follow up question is what advice can you offer on developing those skills?
[00:25:08] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Okay, so I think whenever we we talk about, you know, typical business partnering skills, people just talk about commercial acumen, storytelling, stakeholder management. I say that it's not something different in rocket science, but these three abilities will really help you become a great business partner. So what sets you apart is firstly meeting people where they are at. Okay, so a great business partner actually translates finance into the language of the business. What they are talking. And as a business partner, you will always be using your finance language. But trying to understand where people are at in their journey and actually translating it for them, that really helps. And I developed this skill by actively listening to the teams, by spending a lot of time upfront, talking to them, understanding “The What” language they are talking. And they and they are exactly facing the same problems but in their language. What does it mean? So that's one. The second one is this is a very underrated skill. But being concise in what you talk and it all comes down Like, you know, talk about the why. Why behind it and being able to communicate what you're trying to say in a in a very concise manner in a, in a storytelling format. That is something which would really, you know, set you apart. Something that I've learned from one of my managers is, he had shared that there's a framework which is obviously developed, that there's what? So what? And now what? Any problem, if you are able to describe in these three steps, it becomes so much easier for anyone to understand.
[00:26:57] Guest: Ritu Saxena: So what is obviously describing the situation. So what is what, how does it matter and the impact of it. And now what are the remedies or what are the recommendations from it. This is what the business needs. If you are able to describe a problem or any insight that you have in this, in these three steps, then it makes it so much easier for the business and then, you know, fewer follow up questions. So reporting numbers is just one thing, but then it's also about helping them understand the impact of it. And the third one is building trust through consistency. So trust is built when you are constantly delivering error free work, when you're proactively flagging risk and you are proactively recommending improvements to the business units that you're working for. And over time, that helps you become a reliable advisor and not just someone who was a, you know, finance person sitting in finance. They come and they, you know, present numbers to you every month. You start becoming an advisor and they start thinking of you as their own team. So I think I kind of covered while I was talking how you build that already. But I know like everyone talks about like, yeah, if like, you know, just do excel, just do this. But it's actually these attributes which help you become a great business partner instead.
[00:28:22] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Agreed. I mean, yes, Excel financial modeling, the technical skills are table stakes. We all have to have them, or we're not going to get our first job without some level of proficiency. But those soft skills are really what help us develop, stand apart, make a difference. When combined with those analytical and technical skills that we need. It's not an either or. You need both. But at the end of the day, the one that really helps you advance tends to be the soft skills. Once you've hit a barrier, right, like nobody needs to learn the newest Excel function to be good in your job. I've never had a boss ask me, what were the ten functions you used in that model? They could care less as long as it does what it's supposed to, and it's designed well, and you can articulate the decision that it's supporting. Nobody cares what function you use, where the technical is helpful. I think especially one allowing you to automate speed up I'm often do good analysis, get to data that you might not be able to otherwise, then it's the soft skills that allow you to influence and make that difference for the business, you know. You mentioned: The what? Now what? So what? Use that all the time in my training. You know, you need to spend what is what we so often get caught up on. But 80% of your time needs to be spent on the so what and particularly most of it should be on the now what? That's what the business wants to know. We're advisors. The business is looking to us to help them make better, faster decisions. That's what a business partner does. You know, and others in finance get to do that too, but particularly that FP&A business partner role. You're a lot like a mini CFO. There's a reason more and more CFOs are coming from FP&A and more CFOs are becoming CEOs. That role is becoming much more commercial and strategic than it used to be historically.
[00:30:14] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Absolutely. And, you know, going back to my point that it's so important to find that right role, which is helping you do that, because a finance business partner as a title could mean anything at any point of your career. And I think we've spoken about this in our introductory call before that. There's a thin line of difference, and you have to be able to spot how you can actually not be a glorified management accountant versus versus a role which is influencing the entire business. So being able to spot that is very, very key in the interview, and probably even in the first couple of months of your role, it's you should be able to spot it. And there are a couple of things that you need to do to be able to spot that. But yeah, I've specifically nailed it in the interview stage. How do you figure out what it is like?
[00:31:08] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, you want to figure out what the role is really going to be like and make sure it's a fit. And if you're really focused on business partnering in the strategic side, you need to make sure that's the role versus reporting. You know, I spent most of my career in the business units versus corporate, because if you're in a corporate role, you're often a lot more reporting rolling up. Not as much with the business in a management county, whatever you want to call it. Where is it you're out in the business and supporting a leader of a business, you're generally doing a lot more business partnering. Neither is better than the other or neither is right or wrong. You just need to know what fits your personality and where you're going to be happy is what I tell people, because, you know, if you love being out with the business and making those decisions, you're the guy that's rolling it all up and doing all the reporting and nothing but board decks. Yeah, probably not going to be very happy. And you're not going to last long.
[00:31:58] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Yeah, exactly. It needs to challenge you at some point. Right. Like so I mean, there's only so much of a couple of years you can spend doing the same thing. And whereas with a business partnering role, the problems evolve over time as the business is growing. So that becomes a lot more fulfilling, I believe.
[00:32:15] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, especially if the business is growing. I've been. I supported Traveler's Check for American Express. Now here's what that business looked like. I think it had dropped 99% over the last 15 years. It's gone from a $20 billion business to, let's just say, a lot less than that.
[00:32:34] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Oh, okay. That's interesting.
[00:32:37] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, it was actually really interesting to support, but I also looked at it and said, probably not a long term place to support a dying business. Yeah, yeah.
[00:32:47] Guest: Ritu Saxena: So yeah, there's only so much bones that are left in that. Right. And how much more I would say creative can you get in, in those situations?
[00:32:55] Host: Paul Barnhurst: There's always so much left to extract in the way of value and to make a difference in, in a business that, you know, you're maintaining because you have to, but it's not an area you're trying to grow. So that was an interesting experience. But we're going to switch gears here a little bit. I want to spend a few minutes talking about personal brand. Yeah. You've talked a lot about how personal brand is really valuable. And it's really important for, you know, people to do that, not just hone the technical skills, get certificates or even soft skills. So talk a little bit about why you think personal branding is so valuable.
[00:33:33] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Yeah. So firstly you could be building the most complex models, but if people don't know that then it's a problem. And this was something that I soon realized in probably somewhere in my mid career that I was such a hard worker and I still am, but my work was not getting highlighted the way it should have been, and that is something which kind of held me back. And that's when I realized that I need to be building my brand in a way that people reach out to me for the right things. And personal branding is nothing but a natural extension of what you are naturally good at. And you want to convey that in a professional setting. So it's basically, I would say that intentionally creating that perception of you, which is not it is authentic to you. I'm not saying that like, you know, a perception means a false reality. Perception is being able to mold an image of you which you feel will really take you forward in your life. So specifically, it could be. It could mean, like for me, that people reach me out for more decision making, for more strategic thinking, or if I want to be known as like, oh, she is technically competent or she is a great collaborator, she's a great communicator. How am I conveying that to the business in different ways, so that when the right opportunity comes, they reach out to me. And, again, back in my consulting days, I was really good at analytical work. But again, to be able to highlight that it was a, it was a big challenge due to the hierarchy and, you know, many other factors. And that's when I realized that, okay, I need to be building my brand with the right people in the business if I want to grow. And it's not also about just within your business. It's if you're looking at your overall career, it means you know, you're letting your network also know about it.
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Yeah, there's a lot to that of you know, part of it is not just working hard. Lots of people have great work ethic and do really good work. But you also have to figure out how to be visible. It doesn't mean playing politics. I think some people think that it doesn't mean you have to brag about everything you do, but you have to find ways to help people understand the value you're bringing. You can do that both internally and externally. You know, I try to make sure people know my brand is all about my beard. I don't care about FP&A or not, but it really is about brand. And that's something since I've started my own business. And obviously a big part of my business is the brand I built. I've come to realize the value of it. I mean, I could share story after story, how, you know, sharing and building a brand has helped me with opportunities I would have never had before.
[00:37:47] Guest: Ritu Saxena: I would love to hear a little bit more about it. Like if you have some time at the end, but I.
[00:37:53] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I'll share for a minute. Now I'll share a little bit about the audience before, but I mean some of the opportunities. So when I started my business, I remember there's, you know, there's some companies I applied to. I never heard anything, Couldn't get a job with them. I built my brand for about a year and a half. Started my own business. Really starting to scale. I reached out to one of the companies about a job potentially, and got it. Got an email back within ten minutes. Oh, you know, that's completely different from never hearing anything to getting an email back. That's, you know, one example. You know, I'm now a Microsoft MVP. As I've built my brand, I get opportunities to talk to people all over the world. I've had, you know, job offers from companies that I couldn't get hired at before that I had applied to. And I remember, you know, them offering me jobs and that that's come from the brand. So it really does making, you know, letting yourself be known. But you got to do it authentically. Yes. Yourself. It's not about bragging or convincing everybody you're better than others. It's just helping people see who you are. Like when I ask people what you know, how do they view my brand? The word I get most often is authentic. Sometimes I'll hear folksy, and that's what I want. I want people to think, okay, I'm authentic. I do this because I enjoy it. I'm trying to share a message to help others, but I also want people to recognize that, yeah, I'm an authority in this space. I'm somebody that I can help you with things if you need it.
[00:39:17] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Yeah. And did you mainly build it via sharing your knowledge on, on LinkedIn or online? Because I'm sure, like, you know, there are people at my stage who would love to, you know, get get more brand exposure. So how do you go about with that?
[00:39:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, for me, it was mostly LinkedIn. I did some I got invited to some webinars and different things off LinkedIn. Somebody asked me to write an article for the website and things started to build. I never planned on building a business. I was on LinkedIn to get a job. What I always tell people when it comes to building a brand is, I say, one. You have to find your medium and your voice. Some people, like you have to be on LinkedIn or you have to be on TikTok. You have to be on YouTube. And I basically call BS to all of it. You find what works for you, whether that's podcast, video, audio, long form blog. You can build a brand any medium you want. Some are harder than others. Some are better for your type of work than others. But that doesn't mean you have to do it. You find out what works for you and then it comes down to consistency and getting better over time. Odds are, your content, as I like to tell people, is going to suck at first. Yeah, it's just reality. But the good news is nobody's looking anyway because you don't have a following. So just. And you'll get better.
[00:40:32] Guest: Ritu Saxena: I love that reframe. I absolutely love it.
[00:40:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I've had plenty of things that have completely bombed where I'm like, all right, what was I thinking? But you just learned.
[00:40:42] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Yeah. And I think just just on that point around building the brand. Like I say, in the part of the world where there's a big thing called as tall poppy syndrome, that if is anyone is trying to outshine, then people start feeling a little uncomfortable. And that is something that was hard to get over. So firstly, initially my career when I couldn't advocate for myself, I had to, you know, turn into a new leaf and then, you know, in this part of the world where it's a little more rampant. So it's hard. But then if you stay true to yourself and you really believe that, yes, you do have value to offer. And to your point, you're not bragging. You're just letting people know of your capabilities, of what the value you can bring to the table in a way which sounds, you know, authentic to you, then opportunities flow in. So yeah, I agree. Like for me also even advocating for myself in interviews in the right manner got me the opportunities.
[00:41:44] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, you definitely have to learn to advocate for yourself. And it's a balance for everybody. And you know, like I said, it's figuring out what works for you and developing those skills. Now one of the things I really like is so often we're told, hey, focus on your weaknesses to turn them into strengths. I think the best advice I've heard is focus on the weaknesses that are keeping you from going, where you need to get those to a level that they're no longer a problem, and then focus on your strengths. You'll differentiate yourself by your strengths, and that works best when you have a couple unique strengths, right? If you're a great accountant, you're in a huge pool. But if you're a great accountant, that's also a great trainer. It's a much smaller pool, or you're a great accountant that's also a great business partner, whatever that might be. Having 2 or 3 skills that you're really good at are going to allow you to stand out better than becoming slightly above average with all your weaknesses.
[00:42:39] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Oh, I love that. And that is kind of, you know, the framework that I had used for building a personal brand, you know, like identifying your own unique strengths and your unique values and something that I've learned is that if you work on your strengths, you're going to ten x your career And when I pivoted from consulting to the business side of things, I annexed my growth because I pivoted on my strengths. I realized like, this is what I like, and that is what helped me accelerate my career. And then obviously, you know, the other things are like creating opportunities for yourself. Once you know your unique strengths, like, you know, immersing yourself in projects like that and asking for more collaboration opportunities within your business. So it's all about, you know, being able to first identify and then find opportunities. And then the third one, obviously is like being able to advocate and communicate it out in various ways. And like, you know, whether it's to your manager, in your 1 to 1 conversations or whether it's in your wider stakeholder group or, as you said, like on online, you know, you are a classic example of how you build your brand online. So that is what kind of, you know, helps you make that personal brand.
[00:43:57] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yep. And you know, for some people, if you're your personal brand, a lot of it can be just inside the company. Yeah. At some point you need to go external, because odds are you're going to have to find another job somewhere. But you definitely start with just building it where you are. It doesn't have to be a big project. You can start very small.
[00:44:15] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Absolutely. And this is something which people kind of get wrong. Once they get a job, they kind of get comfortable just within their building their brand, just within the company. And no one outside actually really knows you. But, you know, constantly going for these networking events where you're meeting finance professionals, meeting people within your industry, that kind of lends you the future opportunities. So it's thinking about your career, not just your job.
[00:44:39] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well, especially the more senior you go. I still remember there was a guy who I know wanted to be CFO of. American Express had had a lot of senior positions, you know, very senior roles. And they ended up going external and they hired someone. And one of the things was he didn't feel he had a big enough network at those senior levels. You need to be able to pick up the phone and talk to people all over the place and get advice and have conversations, and you know they're paying for your intelligence, they're paying for your experience. But also to a certain extent, there's a network piece that they're paying for.
[00:45:09] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Absolutely. Yeah, even I've seen in my roles here, like most of the people who are at the senior, they have been hired not because they were, they had applied to the roles, but someone knew someone. Someone and someone.
[00:45:23] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Exactly. All right. So we're going to move into our next section. These are some kind of fun questions we ask and might surprise you here a little bit, but we'll start with the first couple ones that are pretty straightforward. We ask every guest, okay, what is the number one technical skill that FP&A professionals should master?
[00:45:42] Guest: Ritu Saxena: So beyond Excel and typical financial modeling, I would say data visualization is going to really help you in your career. Like leaders love that. If you are able to present that little table in a chart which is actually telling a story and telling you the result, it's going to take you places. So if you are able to learn that, whether it's through dashboard or whether it's just making even charts from your basic data, that is one skill that you should really hone into.
[00:46:16] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, that's a great one. Data visualization. So what's the number one soft skill?
[00:46:20] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Being able to negotiate and negotiation influence comes hand in hand. But being able to get a buy in from stakeholders without being the villain and steering conversations for better financial outcomes. And it all comes down to like if you are somehow able to push back on unrealistic budgets and still not be the villain still, then that is how you've nailed negotiation skills and it's a work in progress. It will. You will never be nailing it at one stage of your career. One thing I've learned is you will always be developing it with experience.
[00:47:01] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, there's definitely a lot of truth to that. It's a process. It takes time. Yeah. So question: are you currently using generative AI at work.
[00:47:10] Guest: Ritu Saxena: So I am actually not using it to the extent I would like. And somehow this part of the world is not using it to the extent that I think US is using it. And I want to talk to you more about it at the end of it. But the way I'm using it is actually more to challenge me. Like, so, for example, I feed in some data and about some insight, I asked ChatGPT to challenge me so that I can provide more insights out of it. So that's how I've been using it currently. But yeah, I want to know more about it from you later on.
[00:47:46] Host: Paul Barnhurst: That's a great way. I've heard a lot. I've heard a lot of people say, you know, it's really good at using it to challenge you. I think that's a good one. I don't think that's a lot of people realize how good it can be. They're kind of an underutilized one. So I appreciate that. And yeah, I mean, I, I think everybody's still trying to figure out exactly how we use it. I get all kinds of answers and we all know what's beneficial. We're all using it, or most of us are using it to some extent. It's continuing to figure out how to get the most value out of it. And there's still security and data and privacy and cost. Lots of things we're figuring out. So it will be a journey. We're all going on together. But it's not going anywhere and we all have to learn it. If you don't, you're just going to get left behind. My take are right now we're going to go to the get to know you section. We've got to know about this person who loves business partnering. Let's get to know a little bit more about you. So a favorite hobby or passion outside of work and outside of your woman's project. So.
[00:48:50] Guest: Ritu Saxena: As a kid, I never got to travel. So this phase of my life, my passion, is basically my hobby, is to travel as much as I can. And this is what I've been doing for the past 2 or 3 years. I've been visiting new countries every six months, if possible. And, most, I went to New York just two years back. And that was my dream as a kid to travel to New York. And it lived up to my expectations. So, that's where I am heading at, like in the next 2 to 3 years. This is what I want to do. I want to travel more. I want more experiences.
[00:49:30] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Have fun, enjoy the travel. New York's a fun city to visit, for sure. All right. If you could go back and give your younger your little self, your younger self one piece of advice, what would it be?
[00:49:43] Guest: Ritu Saxena: I think now that I look back, because I studied so much, and I worked so hard. I want to tell my younger self that, you know, you don't have to be serious all the time. Things are going to work out if you do the work. Things are going to work out. But live a little more and enjoy a little bit more. Because I personally believe at this stage of life that I did not enjoy my youth the way I could have because I was so focused on studying, finishing my chartered accountancy and I was doing Indians. It's a tough one to crack. Only 10% of people pass in that. So yeah, now that I look back, I'm like, okay, probably all that work led me to where I am today, but I have missed out a lot of, you know, my youthful days, I feel so, which is what I'm trying to live now, you know, by traveling and all of it. But yeah, I would say just.
[00:50:39] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Have a little more fun, be a little easier on yourself, work hard, but also enjoy things.
[00:50:43] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Yes, absolutely.
[00:50:44] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And there's definitely a balance. There's a lot of people like to say, play hard, work hard. Mm.
[00:50:49] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Exactly. Yeah. I wish I would have like, you know, understood that a little bit more. But when you are so stressed at that point in time, you don't know how to navigate your future. So, you know, you just work hard.
[00:51:02] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. It's easy to do. We all can get caught up in it. I definitely have a tendency to probably work more than I should, but that's another story. All right. If you could swap jobs with anyone for one week, who you swapping jobs with?
[00:51:18] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Oh, I want to be a barista. So basically, I want to own a cafe. And this is probably a dream project that I want to be in a cafe and be a barista. And that's because New Zealand has turned me into a flat white snob. And I can't have bad coffee. So. And I love having conversations over coffee with people. So I really want to, you know, know what it would be like to own a cafe one day. So even probably just it would be like for a week. I'm happy with that. But just to know what it would feel like I want to do that.
[00:51:55] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. Well, you know, you could always just take a sabbatical from work, go down to Starbucks and apply for a job for a week.
[00:52:03] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Yeah. You know, in New Zealand, if you go to Starbucks, people are going to look down at you because people love their local artisan coffees out here. And if you ever come to this part of the world, I'm going to take you for a nice cup. But then, yeah, that is something I would absolutely love.
[00:52:21] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. That's cool. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you for joining me today. I think it's been a great conversation. I've really enjoyed it. I hope you've enjoyed it as much. Kind of last chance. Any last advice you'd like to give our audience?
[00:52:35] Guest: Ritu Saxena: I think it would be think like a business owner if you can think of your business units or of your business as I own this business. How can I make it more profitable? How can I help them? You will be solving a lot more problems. You will. You will have a much broader perspective to be able to navigate things and to be able to talk about it to different people. And another big one, please don't let your title hold you back. And you just just shoot up the shot. You just like that. You know, don't limit yourself with your title. That's my biggest advice to all the analysts who are out there who are trying to break into business partnering.
[00:53:23] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I love that you don't limit yourself because of your title. That's why I gave myself the title of CEO.
[00:53:27] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Yeah, absolutely. And it's helping, right?
[00:53:30] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Exactly. People pay attention now. No, titles really don't matter. It's about the work you perform. Yes. You want to progress your titles? Sure. Can it make a difference in your pay and all the things we get all that. But it's about doing good quality work. Being somebody who people rely on and the rest takes care of itself. And that's the advice I would tell anyone. Don't get hung up on the little details. At the end of the day, they usually don't make a big difference.
[00:53:58] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Yeah, absolutely. It's looking at a bigger picture, right?
[00:54:01] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, exactly. So if someone wants to get in touch with you or learn more about you, what's the best way?
[00:54:08] Guest: Ritu Saxena: So the best way would be my LinkedIn. If someone wants to reach out to me, that's the place where I hang out the most. And otherwise, if someone is interested in, you know, developing their career, then my Instagram channel at Project Upgrade Her is where I hang out the most. So these two platforms please reach out to me. I'm more than happy to answer your questions.
[00:54:30] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Ritu. I really enjoyed our chat and getting to know you a little bit better and you enjoy the rest of your weekend. Go do something fun. It's nice and early.
[00:54:40] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Yes. Thank you. And, the weather is looking great today, so I am probably gonna do something fun.
[00:54:48] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well, good. Well, thanks again for joining us.
[00:54:50] Guest: Ritu Saxena: Thank you. Thank you so much for inviting me. Thank you.
[00:54:55] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thanks for listening to FP&A tomorrow. If you enjoyed the show, please leave us a five star rating and a review on your podcast platform of choice. This allows us to continue to bring you great guests from around the globe. As a reminder, you can earn CPE credit by going to earmarkcpe.com, downloading the app, taking a short quiz, and getting your CPE certificate to earn continuing education credits for the FPAC certification. Take the quiz on earmark and contact me, the show host for further details.