In this episode of the Future Finance Show, hosts Paul Barnhurst and Glenn Hopper dive into the convergence of finance, technology, and AI. They reflect on their experiences at the recent Finance and Technology Expo in New York, where they were both speakers. Covering themes from AI integration to the role of data in financial planning, they explore how these emerging trends are transforming the finance landscape.

The episode features Paul Barnhurst, known for his expertise in FP&A (Financial Planning & Analysis), and Glenn Hopper, author and finance tech expert currently on a speaking tour for his new book, AI Mastery for Finance Professionals. They’re joined by guests from the Finance and Technology Expo, including Alex Brower, CEO of Qflow.AI, and Liran Edelist, co-founder of the FP&A Hub, who share insights on technological innovation in finance.

In this episode, you will discover:

• Frameworks for choosing FP&A tools that match different organizational needs

• The real impact of AI on finance jobs and practical uses of AI

• Top Takeaways from the Finance and Technology Expo 

• Why consolidated data is crucial for effective AI and planning applications 

• The importance of having policies for AI integration to prevent misuse 

In this episode, Listeners are reminded that as powerful as AI and tech tools can be, their impact hinges on having the right infrastructure, skills, and a strong strategy for integration. The hosts offer actionable advice on navigating today’s finance tech landscape and preparing for tomorrow.

Follow Alex:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexbrower/

Follow Liran:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drliranedelist/

Join hosts Glenn and Paul as they unravel the complexities of AI in finance:

Follow Glenn:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gbhopperiii
AI Mastery for Finance Professionals: https://a.co/d/hOEegnR

Follow Paul:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thefpandaguy

Follow QFlow.AI:
Website - https://qflow.ai/future-finance

Future Finance is sponsored by QFlow.ai, the strategic finance platform solving the toughest part of planning and analysis: B2B revenue. Align sales, marketing, and finance, speed up decision-making, and lock in accountability with QFlow.ai.

Stay tuned for a deeper understanding of how AI is shaping the future of finance and what it means for businesses and individuals alike.

In Today’s Episode:

[02:44] - Paul’s Monologue: People, Process, and Technology
[05:32] - The Future of Jobs in the AI Era
[08:45] - Reflections on the Finance and Technology Expo
[14:15] - Alex Brower on Choosing the Right Finance Tools
[19:17] - Insights from Paul’s Presentation
[26:47] - Glenn on Effective AI Strategy for Finance Teams
[31:47] - Modernization and Data-Driven Decision Making
[38:01] - Latest AI Innovations and Predictions for 2025
[45:35] - Wrap-Up and Closing Remarks


Full Show Transcript

[00:01:43] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: Welcome to this special episode of Future Finance. In this episode we'll have the standard section. We'll have my monologue where I talk about process people and technology. We'll have Glenn section where your job is safe. Then we will have a section Where Glenn and I talk about Finance and technology Expo that we attended in New York City. At that expo, we both spoke and we'll talk about what we shared, what we learned, who we met. We'll also have a few special guests share their experiences from fate. And then Glenn and I will just talk about the state of AI, some of the things we're seeing, how fast it's moving, new technology and changes such as what Claude just recently announced or where Nvidia may be going as this is a fast moving, exciting space. We hope you enjoy this episode. Make sure you listen to The End to learn something about Glenn as I put him on the spot and ask him some personal questions.

[00:02:41] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: Thanks for joining us this week. I want to talk about something that's often overlooked with technology processes or programs or transformations, whatever you want to call them. I like to think of technology and implementing them as an evolution, not a transformation, But what I want to focus on is two things that are often overlooked, and that is the two P's people and process. Before you implement a new tool, before you implement generative AI or an FP&A planning tool, or a treasury tool or an ERP, ask yourself, do I have the right people in the right roles? Right organization? Are the things I need to do to upskill them? Have I got the culture in place? Do we have the vision, the mission, and everybody knows what they should be working on. And then ask yourself about processes. Do we have good processes that there's something manual? Can we automate it today? If not, why not. Then start to think okay, where are the gaps in the process? Where are the things that are taking a long time and develop that process mindset. Upskill your team, then figure out where technology should be layered in and how that technology should enable your team not solve their problems. The right people plus the right processes plus technology is where the magic can happen. One of my favorite quotes when it comes to technology is old processes plus new technology equals expensive broken old processes.

[00:04:18] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: You often have to update your processes, but even before you get there, you should always be developing that process. Mindset change and new systems and transformations or evolutions is about people, process, culture. It's about managing that, being strategic, getting buy in, making sure you understand what you need. What are you trying to solve? You need to know that up front before you implement the technology. So these are some things that I've been thinking about and wanted to share as we talk a lot about tech. And Glenn and I love tech, especially generative AI and where it's going. With all the recent exciting announcements. It feels like every week new things are coming out. The stuff Claude has done recently, the things OpenAI continues to do. It's fast moving. But remember, technology does not solve our problems in and of itself. We need to make sure we have the right people, the right processes, the right culture that we're thinking about all those things and making sure they're in place so that technology can allow us to accomplish more, to be more efficient and more effective for our business and to meet their needs.

[00:05:32] Host2: Glenn Hopper: Hey guys. Glenn here checking in this week from Phoenix, Arizona as I continue my speaking tour around the launch of the new book, AI mastery for Finance Professionals. I wanted to drop in with some thoughts on our ongoing segment of your job is safe for now. I think a lot of us, and as I go around and talk to people in finance and accounting, I think a lot of people are already starting to lose sleep over The AI is taking over headlines right now, but I'm here again to say if you're not, your job is safe for now. Despite the doomsday headlines, your job isn't about to be stolen by AI anytime soon. So let's dig into why I say that. AI is rapidly reshaping our world. It's causing anxiety for some, but it's also opening up incredible opportunities. One of the most exciting aspects of AI, specifically generative AI or gen AI, is its newfound accessibility. It's no longer just for tech experts. Now anyone can use it. While employees are adapting AI to make their jobs easier, many company leaders are still figuring it out. It's like a tortoise and hare race. Employees are speeding ahead while leadership is, you know, kind of still debating all the AI risks. Teams have already automated tasks and are reaping the benefits. Today. Companies are hesitant for good reason. Data silos across multiple platforms lead to kind of this tool. Fatigue and AI can help unify data, but first, organizations need to clean up their digital clutter. You know, we've heard this before. Think of data as the foundation. It's the driving force behind AI transforming how businesses operate.

[00:07:06] Host2: Glenn Hopper: Simplify business intelligence means AI tools can interpret data almost instantly. Imagine getting last quarter's sales insights in seconds. No more long meetings or tedious PowerPoints that we all have to sit through. AI is also revolutionizing training, reducing training times from weeks to hours. Custom demos are another game changer. AI will soon be able to generate personalized presentations for clients instantly, making them feel truly valued. But let's not get carried away. Companies need a solid AI integration plan. Private equity backed firms are already seeing efficiency gains of up to 30%. If your organization wants to keep up, it's time to act. AI isn't just a shiny new tool, it's a game changer, a completely new way of working. You can't simply apply AI to old processes and expect Results. Meeting employees where they are is crucial. Many are already proficient with AI tools, whether at work or in their personal lives. Companies need to ensure their AI solutions are effective, secure and IT approved. AI is already being used across organizations, whether officially approved or not. Leaders need to acknowledge this and adapt quickly. So what's the key takeaway? I guess your job is safe for now. AI is not here to replace you, but it may be your ultimate sidekick, enhancing your skills and freeing you to do what truly matters. Embracing AI can free you from the mundane tasks, giving you time to innovate and focus on more meaningful work. To fully benefit, organizations must prioritize data privacy. Stay adaptable and ditch outdated practices. Embrace AI with an open mind. We are witnessing a major shift, and it's an exciting time to be part of it.

[00:08:45] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: Welcome to this special episode of Future Finance. Glenn and I are going to talk about Faith, what we're seeing out there in AI tools. And we're also going to share some recordings from Liran Edelist and Alex Brower, who attended the Finance and Technology Expo in New York last week. So where I want to start with you now, Glenn, any overall thoughts? Maybe something that was a highlight for you? I know you were there for day two of the conference as you were the keynote speaker, but beyond your speech, any kind of experiences you had that were highlight?

[00:09:21] Host2: Glenn Hopper: Well, so the first experience I had was it was the first time you and I had actually met in person. And so that was great. And we got to go to lunch and navigate the real world, which you probably thought for a while that I was just some kind of AI construct and that I wasn't an actual real person.

[00:09:37] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: So I was starting to wonder when you didn't make it to day one and everything else. So did my beard live up to the expectation? Because that's really all. 

[00:09:47] Host2: Glenn Hopper: Absolutely. And actually, walking behind you, I found that it was a good windshield, like you were.

[00:09:52] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I am a little fat. Thanks for reminding me. Claude even told me so. I believe when I put the photo into Claude, it said you are overweight or obese based on the fullness in your face. I don't know if you remember that, because, like our first or second episode, Claude had just came out with the ability to load images to its app that it had created on iOS. So I'm like, I had to try and see what it would tell me about myself.

[00:10:17] Host2: Glenn Hopper: Yeah. In all seriousness, though, I mean, I love that we're sort of just doing this, catch up episode here. And I, you know, we always try to keep our episodes short, compact, tight. People get in and get out. But there are so many episodes there now, especially the ones with multiple hosts where the two hosts are just yammer on at each other for like an hour. And then, by the way, they have a guest and I don't know, maybe we could get better at talking and we could do that as well. But then I think our podcast, we'd have one of those 3 or 4 hour, rambling podcasts. I don't know what that would do for our listeners. 

[00:10:52] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: I'm not sure. But I'm guessing we could ramble for a long time if we got going that way. I know I can, yeah. So I know you love this subject so I can get you going. Yeah.

[00:11:03] Host2: Glenn Hopper: That's right. So I you know, my experience at the conference was that I felt like cut a little short day, had some client issues come up the real world impacting what goes on at the conference. And, you know, every day on day two, everybody was telling me, oh, you should have been here yesterday. So I really feel like I missed the big day, including the opening keynote speaker. But, you know, it was great to see some familiar faces and a lot of the software groups that you and I have both done a lot of work with. How about you? I know you had a couple of dinners there and what did you take away from the conference?

[00:11:36] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. So I mean, there were, I'd say there's a few things. First, just meeting people for the first time, I got to meet you for the first time. Alex Brower, who, you know, Qflow hosts this podcast. They're a premiere sponsor. He's CEO, so it was great to meet him. Liran Edelist that I work with in FP&A hub used to be called Plan Buddies. You know, Jack McCullough. I'd never met him and a bunch of other people. Josh Aharonoff, your CFO guy. So I think the highlight for me was meeting people in person. There's nothing like that. So that's the first thing that really stood out. Second was getting to see a lot of the vendors and talk to them, particularly in the planning space. That's the area I know you know. Unit for fantastic cube prospects, future view board. I think a plan for the workday and I'm sure I missed somebody and they'll let me know. But you know, there's quite a few planning tools there. That was fun. As far as presentations, there's two that stuck out to me. I won't say much about yours. That was one. I'll let you talk about that. The other one was the keynote opening, Daymond John. And as I mentioned to you, one of the highlights for me was before it opened, I had my mustache curled, which I usually only do when I'm going to an event because it takes time. I'm lazy. What can I say? And I had it all curled. I'm sitting there and all of a sudden this guy is like, cool mustache.

[00:12:55] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: And I look up and it was Daymond John getting ready to go on stage, and he puts out his fist to give me a big fist bump. And all I remember seeing was a big, huge ring that he had on his fist as I kind of gave it to him. And he walked on stage and then as far as his speech, I think there was a couple of things that stood out to me. Had nothing to do with technology as the reminder of, you know, what allows us to be successful in life. And it's not tech. Tech helps us, can help us accomplish more. But it was things like, you know, number one was your goals. Every morning and every night he reads his ten goals. I think he said he does five goals for a year out and then like or for a month or something like that, a couple for a year, three years. But he has different lengths for each of them. And then he talked about, you know, other ones of his love.

[00:13:43] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: Building your brand in this next section, Alex Brouwer, hour. The CEO and co-founder of Qflow.AI is going to talk to us about what he learned from fate. He shares some great advice on how to review demos, how to ask the right questions, and what he learned from one very inquisitive person who really got to the heart of what needs to be done when you're evaluating software. So I hope you enjoy this next section with Alex Brower.

[00:14:15] Guest1: Alex Brower: This is Alex Brower, co-founder and CEO at Qflow.AI. When I first walked into the Finance and Accounting Tech Expo in New York, I was expecting just another tech expo. More vendors parading their SaaS solutions, more noise. And already noisy spaces. Truth be told, my plan was to meet with customers and meet with Paul, Glenn and friends. Then I stumbled upon a booth. The company doesn't matter. They offer a general purpose planning and analysis tool. Nothing groundbreaking, but there was this guy there. A potential buyer who knew his stuff, and he wasn't just nodding along, he was pressing them with pointed questions about an integration point, in this case with Excel. And at first I thought, great, more spreadsheet talk. But as I listened, something clicked. This wasn't just small talk. This was the most efficient way that I'd seen these other listeners at the booth cut through the fluff and get to the heart of whether a product can actually solve their problems. I realized that this guy was doing something that we rarely see. He was making the vendor prove their worth in real time, digging into specifics that actually matter to his workflow. It turned out these workflows were common for the other people there, and for these people who would otherwise be straining their imagination around the specifics.

[00:15:35] Guest1: Alex Brower: For them, it was like watching a skilled chef critique a recipe, knowing exactly which ingredients made the difference. Which got me thinking about how we usually buy software. We identify a problem. Something's broken or too manual, we draft up a list of requirements, talked to a dozen vendors, sit through demos, and while we're doing our best, we then still roll the dice and try to mitigate risk. So here's why you should consider attending the next expo if you're in the market for new finance software. Events like these are a good place to be. But don't come alone. Bring someone who's been hands on. Someone who knows the pitfalls and can ask the tough questions. And if you're that person, if you've been down in the weeds with FP&A tech or any software for that matter, we need you at events like these. Your expertise doesn't just help you, it elevates the entire community by questioning demos, sharing real insights. You help us cut through the marketing smoke and mirrors. You create a space where vendors are held accountable and real value is recognized. I hope to see more of you there. Turning these expos into community events that truly benefit us all. Thanks, Paul. Thanks, Glenn.

[00:16:42] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: You know, there's different sharp points, but not so much the points that stuck out, but just the hustle mentality he had, like just making things happen. Right. We've all been there building that model, doing a budget and you just have to get it done. You just have to make it happen regardless of if it's right or not, in the sense of, all right, something has to be delivered, I have to figure it out. And so I just like that mentality. You know, obviously his was related to clothes and hip hop. So very different than building a budget or a forecast or an investment case. But that same mentality can apply. And so I think that's what stuck out to me. And then the last thing that really stuck out is he talked about how basically his first wife left him because all he was doing was working, was never there for his kids. And that resonated with me as he talked about the importance of being there for your family. Like at the end of the day, that's what matters, not the business we build or how successful we are, you know, are we there for our family and those we love?

[00:17:44] Host2: Glenn Hopper: Well, since I missed it. I mean, it seemed like an interesting choice for, you know, finance and technology to have him come in. Did you like having someone outside of finance to give it maybe a slightly different message coming in or what did you think?

[00:17:59] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: I did, I liked it. I mean, they chose him to draw people in, right? He's a draw regardless of what the subject of the conference is. What have I liked it? If every speech was like that, no, I would have been like, okay, what was the point of coming? But I really liked him as a keynote because I could relate to what he was saying and kind of got you excited. He was a very good speaker, very charismatic presentation. So it drew me in. It's one of the few. I really was riveted throughout one of them, like, you know, one of the only that I really had that level of, wow, this pulled me in. But like I said, if that had been all of them, then I would have been like, okay, why did they tell me this was the finance and technology Expo? Does that make sense.

[00:18:45] Host2: Glenn Hopper: Yeah. And so, you know, I missed that. And then I also missed your presentation because you went right before I did. And I thought I was going to go and actually like look at my presentation and know what I was going to say. But then I got sidetracked, I got pulled into a conversation. And actually, I was in the middle of a conversation when I looked up and I heard them introducing me on the stage. Fortunately, I'd already been miked up and everything, but I was basically running up like a contestant on The Price Is Right to get on the stage from in the back where I was talking, so I missed your presentation as well. So tell me what you covered and what kind of reception you got on that.

[00:19:20] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, so I had a good turnout. I think there was maybe 50 people or so. It was one of the smaller theaters. Funny enough, I spoke at the same time as my co-founder, Liran Edelist. We were hoping we'd be different so we could go, you know, watch each other speak. But they put us on at the same time. So we joked he would have a bigger audience, but I didn't get a count on his. So of course mine was bigger.

[00:19:40] Host2: Glenn Hopper: Yeah, sure.

[00:19:41] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: But, you know, what I covered is I talked about the FP&A marketplace. There. There has been so many tools just the last five years. There's been 50 or 60. New tools in this space. 50 plus, for sure. And depending on how you count it, how small you want to go, what you really consider a planning tool, maybe it's 70, 75. And so I talked about how do you start to segment the market. Because many of those tools are not going to work for certain industries, certain size, certain, you know, customer needs. And so I went through and kind of gave them a framework of how I think about it, how to think about the product so that you can narrow down the options. Because one of the biggest things people struggle with, and I hear it again and again, is I don't even know where to start or all the tools look the same, you know? So how do I kind of differentiate them? And what I focus on is a couple different angles and we'll share these real quick. One is I've started to do this where, hey, are they just a planning tool? There's some that just do financial planning. There's some that do your full operational planning really well.

[00:20:47] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: Like they have a really good marketing component or a great supply chain, you know, to go beyond just the financial. So they're doing XP&A if you want to use that term from Gartner. Then I talked about those that are a platform. Right. They can do all your consolidation. They might do your lease accounting. They can help with reconciliation ESG. And so they're really an office of CFO platform that has planning as one of the core components. You know profits is an example looking at. And there are several others. And so then I then I talked about different sizes, a small like a fractional CFO medium under a billion and then a billion plus and said, hey, different tools are going to work best for different sizes. And then I looked at the tools in a couple categories, what I call kind of your spreadsheet tools, where basically they're using the spreadsheet for just about everything now. That's where all the inputs happen, all the way up to a spreadsheet replacement. And so that's what I talked about, just to help people have an idea when it comes time to start searching for a tool to know where to start.

[00:21:56] Host2: Glenn Hopper: That's great. And that's, honestly, that would have been beneficial for me to attend that. I'm, you know, in my day job when I'm not flapping my gums on podcasts, I work with fractional CFOs on the technology side, you know, helping them develop. Obviously, I'm mostly focused on AI powered solutions, but a lot of times they don't even need AI. They just need some kind of automation tool. The issue with an agency, though, that does fractional CFO work is you can't just, you know, it depends on the pricing, you know, so we're doing CFO, Controllership and basic accounting and FP&A. So you know, we want to standardize as much as possible. But if you've got this clients on NetSuite, This client is on QuickBooks. This one's on Xero. It's hard to kind of standardize the back end of the tools, but that would be sort of a tool selection and tool focus. That would be kind of a fun episode to do here. I know you do probably more of that. 

[00:22:55] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: I would love to do that. I think it would be a good one. And, you know, when you talk fractional CFO, what's interesting is a lot of tools have realized there's a big need there, and a lot of them are starting to focus on how can we help meet the needs of fractional CFOs. It'll make it easy to see all their different customers, even though their different ERP platforms, and be able to give them that same type of template throughout. Yes, there'll be differences. Everybody's model has nuances, but trying to help with that, helping with the reporting because, you know, at some point it becomes really hard to standardize and scale with just the spreadsheet without some of the benefits of a full platform, whether that's an Excel based platform or something else. And they're starting to realize, oh, you know, CFOs fractional these groups have a little bit of different needs.

[00:23:48] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: So Jarov was one of the first in that space. But lately it feels like that's the biggest thing I'm seeing is people coming to me wanting to create something for that space. Ever feel like your go to market teams and finance speak different languages? This misalignment is a breeding ground for failure in pairing the predictive power of forecasts and delaying decisions that drive efficient growth. It's not for lack of trying, but getting all the data in one place doesn't mean you've gotten everyone on the same page. Meet qflow.ai, the strategic finance platform purpose built to solve the toughest part of planning and analysis B2B revenue. Qflow quickly integrates key data from your go to market stack and accounting Platform, then handles all the data prep and normalization under the hood. It automatically assembles your go to market stats, make segmented scenario planning a breeze, and closes the planning loop. Create air tight alignment, improve decision latency, and ensure accountability across the teams.

[00:25:05] Host2: Glenn Hopper: Yeah, it almost would make a good topic for a convention like the Finance and Technology Expo.

[00:25:14] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: You actually could have one on just planning, right? A planning and technology expo. Yeah. Going beyond just finance. But the other thing I liked about it was just the fact that people could come and see all those different tools, see some presentations and network. Right. Because let's face it, the vendor stuff is nice. You might find a few, but rarely ever are all 70 vendors something you're looking for, right? Maybe 15 R, maybe five, maybe 20, whatever it might be, you might be looking for 2 or 3 tools. Usually somebody has 1 or 2. Then it's networking and attending some speaking events and they go to good job with the speaking and there are some good opportunities to network.

[00:25:56] Host2: Glenn Hopper: I guess that was the first one. It'll be interesting. I think there's a lot of room for growth there, and I think having more vendors and it'll be interesting to see year over year how this Expo convention does because it felt pretty strong for year one.

[00:26:10] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, they had, what, 20? I think they said 2600 people registered. They had a thousand through the door by 11 a.m. on day one. I don't know what their final numbers ended at, but that's strong for year one, right? They have a CFO, Leadership council, strategic CFO, CFO. 360 that whole organization has done a lot of events, and they have a strong brand, which helped because putting your year one together with 70 vendors, That's not easy. Yeah. Two day event. I did a two day virtual event. The first one I did nearly killed me.

[00:26:45] Host2: Glenn Hopper: Yeah. 

[00:26:47] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: Tell us about your talk. What was your presentation all about? You were a keynote. Yeah. I like to put those in quotes, which means that Glenn was important. Me and Liran were afterthoughts. If I can get a little. Yeah. I knew I'd get a laugh out of it.

[00:27:02] Host2: Glenn Hopper: Yeah.

[00:27:03] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: Closing keynote speaker that everybody waited for. So tell us about it.

[00:27:07] Host2: Glenn Hopper: You know, honestly, when I got up there, I realized I'm the very last thing. I'm sure you noticed vendors were breaking down their booths while I was talking. 

[00:27:18] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. I got pulled away for a few minutes during yours because somebody was leaving, and I had to go over and.

[00:27:23] Host2: Glenn Hopper: Yeah. So, you know, considering all that was going on, I felt like the turnout was pretty good. But I'm realizing at the end of 24. So as more people get familiar with these generative AI tools. It's a kind of lead off all these talks with parlor tricks. I just show them cool stuff you can do in Claude, cool stuff you can do in Llama, ChatGPT and get their attention. Because if someone hasn't used it, there's some wow factor. You can show them something and they can say, oh, you know, I understood you could write a marketing copy, but didn't realize you could actually do data analysis through here. So I open up with that. But something that's been as I talked to more and more companies, there's there's integration like this full integration that's going to happen when the SaaS providers start providing you start integrating generative AI into their tools, when the data rails and Cube and NetSuite and, you know, all the companies that are out there providing ERPs and CRMs and software that we're using every day when it's integrated in, that's going to be a whole thing, but it's going to take a while for them to get it right. And they're not going to put something in their product when they're, you know, when there's concerns about hallucination and the other areas. So what's happening is every week it seems like there's a new study. More and more employees are using generative AI. Yes and no. Like companies are not leaning in enough. So it's really becoming the employees are sort of doing this on their own.

[00:28:59] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: Employee led groundswell, I can do something in two minutes or an hour. I'm going to go two minutes.

[00:29:05] Host2: Glenn Hopper: Yeah. And they're doing it. So if your company doesn't have a policy and an approach, some dumb stuff could be happening by your employees. Now, they're finding ways to make themselves way more efficient and way faster. And they're really using this. But if you're telling them they can't do it, you don't have any clear guidelines in place. There's kind of this whole attitude is like there's yeah, Ethan Mollick calls them secret cyborgs. The idea is they're using it, but they're worried they're going to get in trouble. So they're doing it, you know, kind of shielding their screen and not letting them know, so to speak. Yeah. Which opens up all kinds of danger. So really what I'm talking about a lot. I talked about it at fate, and I'm talking about it in a couple of weeks to come in some upcoming presentations I'm doing. It's time. As managers, we can't we can no longer be saying, well, we're not going to use it because I'm risk averse and we have to, you know, we're going to wait until they work the kinks out, and then we're going to dive in because the employees aren't waiting until the kinks are worked out.

[00:30:06] Host2: Glenn Hopper: And if you don't come in now with a plan, you know, there's more risk that something's going to happen. Plus, your employees are going to end up getting frustrated and flustered that you're telling them they can't use this tool when they know how powerful it is, and they know what they could be doing with it. So I'm really working, trying now to help management, especially, you know, finance and accounting. People were very risk averse, helping them change their mindset and figure out a way that we can take incremental, you know, baby steps into using generative AI where we're improving efficiency. And so that's what I talked about there. And that's really top of mind for me going into 25. I mean it's either that or I'm tempted to go too geeky and talk about the stuff that I do in my day job of trying to build agentic workflows and fine tuning models and all that. And I found people don't want to hear me talk about that level of nerd stuff. So it's better just to back out and talk about the program in general.

[00:31:04] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: It sounds like early days. A lot of parlor tricks were popular as everybody was getting familiar with like, oh, wow, I can do this. I can do that. Now that's not as big. And it's much more really helping companies realize that. Look, you need a strategy. You need at least a document that says here, out, here's how we can use it. You need to give your employees some ideas and some guidance so you don't end up with some kind of legal or other problem, potentially from Using AI and having data out there. That shouldn't be. Is that kind of what I'm hearing?

[00:31:38] Host2: Glenn Hopper: Yeah. Exactly. And don't you know you're not going to be serving anyone by just ignoring it and pretending it's not happening.

[00:31:45] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: What's not happening? We interrupt the conversation between Glenn and I to bring you a short clip from Liran Edelist. Liran is the co-founder of the FP&A Hub planning community and my business partner. In this clip, he shares what he learned from the conference, and he also talks about the speech he gave, what he talked about in the conference. So we'll go ahead and roll that. After his clip, we'll be back to the regularly scheduled conversation between Glenn and I. Thanks for listening.

[00:32:18] Guest2: Liran Edelist: Hey, Paul. Yes, it was a great meeting with you last week at the Financial and Accounting Technology Expo. What I really like in the event is the concept, the base idea that we are putting technology as a core, as the focus topic in this event. Most of the events I've been in the past couple of years, technology was an add on and this time technology was really the focus. And I think it's great because definitely it's a topic by itself and we cannot neglect or we cannot just, you know, think as technology is an add on because it's really at the core of our business and talking about technology, we also need to speak about innovation. So I think there were a couple of innovative concepts around this event, like doing the theater sessions in the same place where Expo is taking place. So everything is kind of together moving in the same time, like technology, as well as giving some small vendors and startups the pitch deck so everyone was able to play together. Whether there was a real startup, more mature companies or the common large vendors that we all know. So I think all of that were kind of giving a great concept for technology event. In terms of my presentation, we were talking about technology, so I had to speak about innovation and technology, and how CFOs and FP&A leaders should be thinking about their modernization piece. There were a couple of concepts that were very important to me to mention.

[00:33:44] Guest2: Liran Edelist: The first one is we need to think about the technology around us and the challenges that technology is bringing with that constant change of business and technology as a mindset of modernization versus, I would almost say, a more classic thinking of digital transformation. I think, you know, this is not just a change of a name. It's a change by concept. When we are talking about digital transformation, which sometimes thinking about a project, about changing, of a couple of system, and then when we think about innovation, innovation is something constant that we want to make sure that our organization is progressing all the time and being able to achieve the goals and keep, you know, moving forward in the same rhythm that we are expecting it to move. So for FP&A professionals. For CFOs, the approach I was suggesting in my speech was modernization. And in order to meet modernization goals that really three plus one topics that we want to focus on and one topic is data. We cannot do modernization in our FP&A, in our finance department and in the organization as a whole without proper data. Now, this is not a new concept that we need to have one data for the organization data warehouses. Data lakes have been like well known concept. But I think the main change over the past couple of years is that it's really much more easy to get data, it's much more easy to do pipelines to load data from different systems and to think about data all together.

[00:35:13] Guest2: Liran Edelist: You know, we can take systems like, you know, Microsoft power BI and other that allow even business users to create his own data warehouse. So my main focus around data is we have to think about one data, one place to hold data and try sometimes over time to avoid the concept that we have too many applications, and each of one of those applications are having their own data, and we're literally creating silos instead of creating one source of truth and one place where we can analyze data, we can plan data, and we can do whatever we need to report to the organization and analyze within the same data source. Now, the other three topics that are based on that kind of data infrastructure we should think about. The first one by nature is planning. So everyone who knows me and you, you know that we are in the financial planning and analysis arena. So definitely how do we use this data for proper planning? If we think about advanced planning, then the second topic is AI and how we can embed AI with our data. I used to speak about four types of AI and one of them is by nature the regular prediction. Based on data, we can speak about NLP and how we can analyze text, create quick summaries of meeting like our budget meetings.

[00:36:29] Guest2: Liran Edelist: Another topic, of course, is the generative AI that you know how we can generate the next ideas and topics and even predictions or suggestions with AI. And last but not least is how AI can help us with more automation. And that is being done in many operational areas like credit scores and so on, but can definitely help us in the day to day organization, analyzing potential gaps and giving us some alerts when we are thinking about actual versus budget plans, deals that are at risk, and so on. So I spoke about four areas of AI about planning. All of those, of course, are based on data. And the last topic is storytelling. Super important area. I think storytelling should be put in the same priority as analysis, data and AI because without proper storytelling, we keep producing data and reports without really making a point, without creating a narrative, without creating action plan. So storytelling has a couple of components regarding the narrative and the way we want to influence and present data. The one we want to standardize data and messages in a couple of other topics. So that was kind of my pitch. How you create modernization. What are the key topics to think about data planning, AI and storytelling? And I actually gave some practical tools on how to think about the roadmap to progress people, processes and the technology infrastructure of the organization toward that modernization. Thank you.

[00:37:59] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. No, I hear you. So we've got a few minutes left. Anything you're seeing out there, you know, stepping back from fate, anything that has you excited that you've seen recently that any of these tools are done or anything we should be aware of that. You're like, that's going to be huge going into 25.

[00:38:16] Host2: Glenn Hopper: Yeah. I mean, so much every time you think that the driver is taking the foot off the gas on this, then you just wait a week and then ten things happened. So a new model of Gemini is I'm still waiting on Google to try to make it come back and get competitive and be something that I actually want to use. So a new version of Gemini is supposed to be out by the end of the year. Claude just dropped a bunch, so they have ChatGPT for a while, has been able to write code in line and do the data analysis through code. Claude, actually Anthropic just rolled out their coding. So for data analysis. So this is different than the artifact window where it was writing code. And you could make like a little pong game or whatever, which is I don't mean to say little pong game like it's insignificant, but because the artifact was significant, but now being able to ask questions. The example I always give because LLMs that aren't using code are terrible at this. Ask an LLM to create an amortization table, and if they're not writing code, it's just pulling whatever it remembers about an M table. And it you know, and there's so much detail it has to be right. So if you're not actually doing math, that's never going to be right. So now with Claude, just like with ChatGPT, it's going to write the code for you and you can get a proper amp table out of it. So that's cool, but even more cool, but even more beta is and I have not just, you know, just got back in town and heading back out of town tomorrow.

[00:39:44] Host2: Glenn Hopper: Haven't even got a chance to play with it yet. But the computer use from anthropic is supposed to be, it's very beta, very buggy. But the idea is, you know, this app is not just writing code and doing stuff within the app. It's actually going out to your computer and opening Excel and doing, you know, data entry kind of stuff. So this is I mean, it's going to be a glimpse. Very surprised they rolled it out. They did roll it out with all kinds of caveats and cautions that it's very buggy. It's super beta early days. But this is giving you an idea of the future of AI. And it's funny. It's like it feels a lot like RPA in a lot of ways, but easier to set up, more contextually aware and much more powerful. But that's pretty exciting. There was a rumor for a short minute that the new GPT five or Orion, or whatever they're calling it, model, was going to be released by the end of the year. Sam Altman has since brought that back. So we're gonna have to wait. However, they did accidentally. I don't know if it was accidentally on purpose for a short period. O1: the full model, not the preview model, was actually available accidentally via the website, so people saw some functionality there. So. And I know OpenAI, even with all the money that they've raised. And now we're looking at Claude, Anthropic and xAI, Elon Musk's company are both about to raise, I think xAI at like an $8 billion valuation and Anthropic maybe at like a $40 billion valuation. So yeah.

[00:41:16] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: I think OpenAI just raised that 150 billion valuation. Yeah. Yeah. 100 or 150. Yeah. So not very often. You see startups less than two years old, pretty much never right being in the billions, let alone 100 plus billion. There's what, five companies in the world that are worth a trillion? 

[00:41:36] Host2: Glenn Hopper: Yeah, I mean, and it's like, yeah. And looking at the cost and the expense to run this. But also, you know, OpenAI's, I don't have the numbers right in front of me now, but OpenAI's revenue plan. I mean, their adoption is happening so fast at the paid level that, you know, they may, you know, turn around. Not just not just the breakthrough technology, but just on revenue. They may sooner than we expect, hit a justification for that valuation.

[00:42:03] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: One other and then we'll wrap up here. But did you see Nvidia is starting to do its own LLM and some of this AI stuff with the idea being look, 70% of the cost is your hardware. We get the hardware at cost. So we can take out half of that or more. Therefore we can do this cheaper than everybody else. And if the model is as good, it's a brilliant move. You know, it's a question of can they deliver on the model side and how quickly and in what areas are they going to attack. But be interesting to watch because they definitely have the cash. And if they don't, they can raise some by issuing some stock without a problem with how much their valuation has gone up over the last two years.

[00:42:47] Host2: Glenn Hopper: Absolutely. They're selling picks and shovels in the gold rush. Right. 

[00:42:52] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: Exactly. Yeah. And so they make something off everything. We're 90% of the ones with the pick and ax end up selling it to some other guy when they don't get anything. It's really interesting how that works, where you want to be in a gold rush, so to speak. Last thing before we wrap up, I'm going to ask you a fun question. I'm not even going to let you pick a number. I'm just going to randomly give you one here. Tell me about the most embarrassing moment that you can share with us on a podcast in your life.

[00:43:22] Host2: Glenn Hopper: Most embarrassing moment? Interestingly enough, it hasn't happened on stage or on a podcast, so I don't know. I'm not. The problem is, it takes a lot to embarrass me because normally my sense of humor is sort of self-deprecating and I'm trying to embarrass myself. Oh, you have that problem? Yeah. So geez. So an embarrassing thing I don't.

[00:43:50] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: Right, fine. I'll switch it for you. I'll give you a different one. All right, all right. What's the most unique thing you've ever done with a spreadsheet? I know you have a nerdy thing you've done there. It's going to be like, you gotta be kidding me.

[00:44:00] Host2: Glenn Hopper: Yeah. Most nerd, the most unique thing I've done with a spreadsheet. So I went.

[00:44:08] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: I had someone do a bathroom tracker at work, a spreadsheet. 

[00:44:13] Host2: Glenn Hopper: Now I'm thinking back, I'm sure there was something in my cubicle days, you know, early on as a as a young financial analyst sitting around a bunch of other Excel people doing, you know, who were trying to show each other up with all of our Excel chops. There had to be something. But I guess the most unique thing I've done, the weirdest thing, is when you spend so much time in Excel, I think we've all been down this road where you just start doing everything in Excel. Like I would be writing a letter or something like, let me put this in boxes here and I, you know, or you do the things where you're trying to make a Gantt chart. So you're doing a conditional formatting in a cell where you're trying to have the dates measure up for something that there's no reason you should do it in Excel, other than I wonder if I could figure out how to.

[00:45:05] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, let's just see if I can do it. Yeah, yeah. That you basically get to the point where you just decide to do everything in Excel. All right. Any last questions for me before we wrap up?

[00:45:15] Host2: Glenn Hopper: I don't think so. I think we covered a lot this week. It was kind of fun to have a catch all episode and great to see everybody in person at fate. And I'm looking forward to seeing how our sort of smorgasbord or bento box, sort of all the clips and inputs we got from everybody this week comes together on this episode.

[00:45:34] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: Same here. Well, thank you for joining us for this fun episode. We got the co-host together without any guests. We might do this again. If you liked it, let us know. Give us some feedback. Thanks, Glenn, and I'm sure we'll be doing a regular episode again soon enough.

[00:45:50] Host2: Glenn Hopper: All right. Thanks, Paul.

[00:45:52] Host1: Paul Barnhurst: Thanks for listening to the Future finance show, and thanks to our sponsor, qflow.ai. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a rating and review on your podcast platform of choice and may your robot overlords be with you.