Storytelling Skills for FP&A Professionals to Elevate Business Partnering with Greg Adams
In this insightful episode of FP&A Tomorrow, host Paul Barnhurst, "The FP&A Guy," explores the dynamic world of financial planning and analysis with guest Greg Adams, a seasoned CFO and author. They discuss how finance professionals can drive value through storytelling, critical thinking, and strategic insights. The conversation also delves into Greg's journey from leading finance teams to writing an international crime thriller with an accountant hero, redefining the image of finance professionals.
Greg Adams is the SVP and CFO of the American Management Association (AMA), with over 25 years of leadership experience in public and private finance. He is a CPA and a published author whose debut novel, Green Shades: Accountants Aren't Supposed to Die This Way, combines financial intrigue with a thrilling narrative. Greg's leadership mission is centered on fostering corporate excellence and empowering finance professionals to embrace their strategic potential.
Expect to Learn:
The evolving role of FP&A as a strategic partner in business.
Why storytelling is a critical skill for finance professionals.
How to leverage external data and AI for more robust financial planning.
Insights into the value of "power skills" like communication and leadership.
Greg’s journey writing a crime thriller that challenges stereotypes about accountants.
Here are a few relevant quotes from the episode:
"If you control information, you control the world. FP&A professionals need to look beyond internal data and consider external benchmarks." - Greg Adams
"AI and machine learning allow us to move beyond just historical data to anticipate what’s coming." - Greg Adams
"Step away from your desk and talk to people. The best insights often come from conversations." - Greg Adams
Greg Adams offered a fresh and inspiring perspective on the role of finance professionals. From emphasizing the art of storytelling in FP&A to advocating for the integration of external data and AI, Greg highlighted how finance can be a driver of change and innovation.
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In Today’s Episode
[01:39] - Meet Greg Adams
[04:01] - What is Great FP&A?
[06:17] - External Data and AI in Finance
[10:46] - The Art of Storytelling in Finance
[11:59] - Greg’s Role at AMA
[19:38] - Writing Green Shades
[27:58] - Lessons from a CFO's Career
[38:31] - Evolution of CFO Role
[43:23] - Tips for FP&A Professionals
[51:53] - Final Thoughts and Takeaways
Full Show Transcript
[00:01:39] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Hello everyone! Welcome to FP&A tomorrow. This is the podcast where we delve into the world of financial planning and analysis, examining its current state and future prospects. I'm your host, Paul Barnhurst, aka the FP&A Guy. Each week we're joined by thought leaders, industry experts and practitioners who share their insights and experiences, helping us navigate today's complexities and tomorrow's uncertainties. Whether you're a seasoned professional or just starting your journey in FP&A, this show has something for everyone. This week, I'm thrilled to be joined on the show by Greg Adams. Greg, welcome to the show.
[00:02:25] Guest: Greg Adams: Thanks, Paul. I'm very excited to join you and look forward to our discussion.
[00:02:29] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I do too, I know we only just recently met at a fete and you know, I got your book there and we got to chat a little bit. I thought it'd be great to have you on the show. Got a little bit of bio. We'll do a little bit of background and then we'll jump into the conversation here. So Greg is a CPA so he has one on me. He is the SVP and CFO. I haven't been a CFO so he has two on me, of the American Management Association (AMA). He has held senior finance positions: CFO, COO and director for over 25 years in both the public and private sector. Greg is also an author, having released a financial resource oriented guidebook in the form of an international crime thriller. We'll get into that titled Green Shades, but not only green shades, but the dollar at the end. And it is: Accountants aren't supposed to die this way. I don't like to die at all. Okay, so for three of his 11 years he spent in public accounting, they were at KPMG. He lived in Sydney which is one of the key areas setting for his protagonist adventures in this book. His leadership mission is to help employees and business leaders achieve corporate excellence. How is that for an intro?
[00:03:52] Guest: Greg Adams: That's fantastic Paul. It's been a fun run.
[00:03:55] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Love it. So we start with a few standard questions at the beginning, and the first one here in one sentence or less. How would you define FP&A?
[00:04:06] Guest: Greg Adams: I would define it as a trusted strategic financial advisor who will work with all departments organizations to improve performance.
[00:04:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I like it so basically a trusted advisor who works with the entire business to improve performance.
[00:04:23] Guest: Greg Adams: Exactly, exactly.
[00:04:25] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. So kind of along those lines, can you describe what grade FP&A looks like? How do you know if you're accomplishing what you talked about there? What does it look like in an organization?
[00:04:34] Guest: Greg Adams: Well, it looks like an organization and particularly organizations that I worked with and excellent for the folks at my company. It's really presenting a good story to change behavior, to improve performance, but more importantly, gathering information and data not only internal data, but also external data from various sources, and I think sometimes we miss on that and that we we are seeing with data mining a lot of a lot of information, but we also need to look at it compared to the industry and compare it to other performances. So I think that I was taught very young in my career that if you control information, you control the world. So that's what FP&A does.
[00:05:19] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Data is the new oil. And, you know, data becomes information, so to speak. So there's a lot we control there, you know. And one other thing that that got to me is you talked about the external data I was excited to see. And I think we'll see more of this. One of the big FP&A tools just bought a company that completely focused on helping senior leaders forecast the external environment. So they have like 5 million different data points. They bring in a lot of AI, and one of the big FP&A tools just brought them to integrate into that planning process. And I think where AI is going and different things, we'll see more of that and more of that machine learning that goes beyond just, well, what was our historics? What are our numbers? And really looking externally more because it can only improve what we're doing and make us aware of pitfalls and weaknesses?
[00:06:11] Guest: Greg Adams: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, to build on that, I've been involved in my career. I've been very fortunate with all my career. One of my CFO positions was in the late 1990s, right during the.com convergence of the.com and the convergence of the SEC's Edgar database as well. I was able to get very intimate and familiar with not only SEC filings that were now all being filed electronically and data mined through various APIs, but also, I worked with the SEC in the various committees of XBRL international, and XBRL is Extensible Business Reporting Language, and many of our listeners may or may not know, but Every SEC filing, whether it's a 10-K and 10-q or a form 8-K for material events. They have XBRL tags, which basically is barcoding all the information and what you barcode information with XML tags. You can then rip that out and integrate it into your data presentation story, and then see the trends and compare yourself throughout the industry.
[00:07:19] Host: Paul Barnhurst: That's great. I wasn't aware of that. I didn't know about the XBRL. I will admit I can see where that could be really helpful in making it easier to to get all that external public data.
[00:07:29] Guest: Greg Adams: Yeah, you blew me away when I first saw XBRL and was really good at Seattle. Came from the area through Microsoft guys, and they were playing with some Excel add-ins, and they were building spreadsheets and they put in the ticker symbol, and all of a sudden information just populates that spreadsheet directly from the SEC's Edgar system. And you right click on a number, and all of a sudden you're jumping to that section of the filing, which was to me was remarkable.
[00:07:56] Host: Paul Barnhurst: It's amazing what technology can do. I mean, we're living in an age where it's just so rapid right now.
[00:08:04] Guest: Greg Adams: Oh, absolutely. Especially in all the new AI tools, as you're very familiar with Paul.
[00:08:09] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So, you know, I hear from a company almost every week, I saw a new one this morning that doing some unique things with AI and kind of an interesting approach in finance, and it was fascinating to see and how they thought about it. It just amazes me all the different ways people can think about this, because at the end of the day, whether it's reporting or planning or budgeting or analytics, how many different ways can you do it? There are some differences. At its core, it's very similar. Yet we have hundreds of different solutions of how to do it.
[00:08:38] Guest: Greg Adams: That's right. Yeah, exactly. And it just makes us more efficient. And we're able to step away now from creating data entry work and immediately see trends. And that's the biggest thing, I tell our staff is you need to add value. You know, historical data is great and we all know the historical data, but what's going to happen going forward. And that's and that's the art right there.
[00:09:03] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah I agree two things that kind of came to mind as you said, that is, you know, one, I still remember Jack Alexander. If you know who that is, you might recognize that name. He wrote a book on FP&A. He tells the story where an analyst, you know, brought him this data, and he goes, here's the analysis you wanted, and you flip through it. And there was no recommendation, no nothing goes. No, this is a report. There's no analysis here.
[00:09:27] Guest: Greg Adams: That's right. Yeah.
[00:09:28] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Where's the recommendation or what we should be doing or how we should be thinking about this. He goes, that was the last time he ever brought me a report. You know, he realized pretty quickly that I want your thoughts on this. Your job is to not just regurgitate what's out there, but give me more.
[00:09:46] Guest: Greg Adams: Yeah, exactly. I recently wrote an article for Accounting calling today about how people in finance and finance leaders should leverage that art of storytelling. And it's basically seven storytelling hints. That is really an easy roadmap. You know the obvious one. Know your audience. The second one, you set the scene, you know what's going on. Third is, you know, engage your audience. The fourth is make them care. And the fifth is use some tension or conflict. There's so much in my book. So this is kind of really into green shades. And the fifth is really know your punchline. What's the answer you want? I.e. what's the recommendation that you're going to deliver and that you want. And then, you know, then they end with a really heartfelt conclusion. So it's the old spar with your partner, spar with your audience, which means, you know, identify the situation, identify the problem, create an action which would then drive the result.
[00:10:46] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Love it. And you know, when you think of storytelling, one of my favorite all time books. I have the cover here. I have the book upstairs. You've ever read this effective data storytelling by Brent Dykes? Phenomenal. He gets into the psychology of why facts are not enough, and you need to tell a story to replace the prior narrative. Your audience had their prior story. Facts don't do that. And we're wired to learn things in stories in a lot of ways. And you know, he talks about how data storytelling is very different than telling a story with data. Like, you know, there's the difference between the two. So if you ever get a chance, brilliant book. I had him on just a few weeks ago for the podcast, and he lives here locally, so we've got to be friends over the last couple of years as we both started our businesses about the same time. So fun.
[00:11:35] Guest: Greg Adams: Preaching to the choir.
[00:11:38] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, he is and he's done a ton of research. And so I love that when you can back it up versus not just an antidote. Well, I've heard this, but, you know, show me some evidence. And he does a good job of that, which I like. Yeah. So you're currently the SVP and CFO, I think, as you mentioned, of the American Management Association. So can you tell our audience a little bit of what AMA is, what its role in all this is? I know we have a number of different organizations out there with CPA and the different things. So maybe just spend a minute and kind of walk through how to think of AMA.
[00:12:12] Guest: Greg Adams: Yeah, I think of AMA. First of all, the American Management Association is a not for profit education training company, been around for over a century. We actually celebrated our 100th anniversary last year. And it's really about teaching employees to bring about positive change in their behavior, which then will drive results at your company. And for finance person, I consider these to be soft skills or I like to label them power skills. These power skills, you know, whether it's communication and presentation skills, critical thinking, business acumen, leadership skills, you know, it all leads to making the worker better. So AMA has been a tremendous organization for me to work with. I've been here five years. Most people I've worked here have probably been 20, 25 years. It's a great not for profit. We're based in New York City. We've educated millions of people over those centuries in 100 different countries. Part of my role, too, is I've worked with all our international affiliates that they report to me. So it's, you know, I don't want to say it's teaching the American management style, but it's basically teaching those power skills that are really, I think, are critical for the advancement for every employee. And, you know, unfortunately, some companies don't invest enough in their employees through training. And that's, you know, that should happen as an automatic thing.
[00:13:45] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, unfortunately, I'd say a lot of companies, it's always the first budget to cut and everybody's like, I don't have time. And the reality is, if you really develop a good program and a culture that you care about your people and their learning, you'll be more effective as an organization. The data is pretty much indisputable.
[00:14:04] Guest: Greg Adams: Yeah, absolutely. And the one statistic that jumps out at me is people are the great individual contributors are all of a sudden being managers, and they've had zero management training. They say over 68% of people say they've never received any formal management training. So, you know, picture yourself as a great accountant or an FP&A person. All of a sudden you say, all right, here's ten people that you're going to work for, you know, what do you do? So that's why I really enjoy working at the AMA. They have a difference in people's lives and be able to change behavior for the good and help them succeed, which ultimately helps their business succeed.
[00:14:44] Host: Paul Barnhurst: You know, I have to give a shout out. I first became a manager at American Express and almost immediately they put me in some training for leadership, how to manage and stuff, a couple day training. He did a really good job there, but many other companies, not so much. And like you said, the other example I think of take financial modeling, right. We get out of college, you take a role, you're asked to build a model. You've never built one before. You've never had any training. Corporate finance is terrible at providing modeling training to employees. But if you go into investment banking, you are building a model until you've had some training. Yeah, I find it fascinating because it's like, okay, is the investment banking more important than our budget and forecast and all the modeling we do in corporate finance? No, not really. I would argue different. They're both important. So I just think sometimes that training we can really fall short. And I know it wasn't until I got some training quite a while in that I was able to build even a halfway decent model, and I'm like, I wish I would have had a good training course to get me started. I wouldn't have had near the pain learning it as I did.
[00:15:48] Guest: Greg Adams: Yeah, and one thing that frustrates me a little bit, the AMA, is that we have well over 30 courses that are CPE accredited courses for CPAs, but yet that's not our sweet spot, you know. Our sweet spot is more the manager supervisor turning into a manager and, you know, CPAs or accountants or people finance and FP&A, they got great technical skills. It's almost a given that you have those technical skills. But understanding and learning those power skills or soft skills, that's critical really to any organization.
[00:16:19] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I 100% agree. I often will call them human skills. I'm not a fan of the soft skills like you. There's others. I've called them power before I've even said essential. A lot of people didn't like that one because I like the technical essential. I'm like, I know, I know, I get it, but, so important, when I teach FP&A, we spend probably more time on soft skills than we do on the technical, because there's plenty of resources for the technical. You can learn that. And most people are solid on the technical, but the area where you're going to advance your career is generally not the technical. It might get you that first promotion, but after that you got to start showing that you have the leadership, the business, partnering, the empathy and list goes on and on. Presentation skills. Yeah. Presentation influencing type skills. So I'm with you. So I'm curious how did you end up at AMA? Because I know you spent a long time public as a CFO going kind of to a nonprofit training organization. What led to that decision?
[00:17:21] Guest: Greg Adams: Yeah, you know, I've been CFO of three different public companies, you know, which has its own challenges, mostly in the technology arena. So it's been fun. And especially, you know, my career started in the 80s in public accounting. And then as the 90s as I became CFO in the 90s and 2000, you know, the technology world was changing so quickly. So that was fun. And I've also been CFO of some private companies. And, what attracted me to the AMA really was now I can make a difference in people's lives. I've been through so many things and so of what goes on in an organization because as a CFO, similar to an FP&A professional, you see the entire company? Yes. You know what's going on in all the departments, more or less.
[00:18:06] Host: Paul Barnhurst: You know where the bodies are buried?
[00:18:07] Guest: Greg Adams: Yes. You know where they are? Exactly. And, you know, so I wanted to sort of in my career, you know, for people who can't see me, I have a little bit of gray hair and not too much gray hair, but a little bit of gray hair. And I sort of want to try to have an impact on people's lives and in particular people in the finance arena. And that's one of the things also that drove me to write this crazy novel.
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[00:19:56] Guest: Greg Adams: And I'm holding up to the camera. Copy on Amazon everywhere else. Obviously you've seen the show links later. Really, what drove me to write this? And it you know, it only took me about ten years to write it, but it was fun. Originally, I started off as an accounting research book, but then I realized something was going on in the accounting and finance profession. When you're at parties, when you're out in the world, you always ask, what do you do? And as an accountant or somebody in finance, you go, yeah, I'm an accountant or I'm in finance. But and you have to the but has to you have to describe like, no, it's not boring and technical. It's kind of adventurous. Just you're seeing everything. So I got tired of hearing that you're having to give that answer. So I wanted to create a book that has a hero as an accountant. You know, like a Jack Reacher type character. You know, you have all these series on various shows. Netflix, for example. You know, you have a cop or a CIA agent or a nurse or a doctor or a lawyer, but there's no accountants that are heroes. So that's really what drove me to write green shades and that. And when you write, you write basically two things. You write based on what you know and based on your research. When my book takes place, a lot of the book takes place in New York City, where I am now today. A lot of the book takes place in Australia, where I spent three years with KPMG there, as well as in Barbados and India, where I spend some time with various businesses.
[00:21:28] Guest: Greg Adams: So, you know, you then you write what you know and then you also write based on research and you're able to look at research. So the book is quite a journey. The protagonist of the game is Dex McCord. Kind of a cool character who. I'll give a little synopsis of the book here. Dex McCord is a senior manager at a large accounting firm in New York City. He asked his friend in Australia to do a simple audit of an XBRL facility, that is data mining and helping SEC filings be converted into XBRL before the filed with the SEC. While his friend that he sends to do an audit up in India comes back to Australia and all of a sudden a few days later, his body is found up dead on the northern beaches of Sydney. And then when McCord goes to the funeral, he starts finding out that the authorities say it's a surfing accident, but it wasn't a surfing accident. There's something going on behind his friend's death. And from there, it goes around the world. And not only implications in the finance arena there, but also international implications in the political arena. So a very different story that most accounts would read and most accounts would see. Of course, there's a lot of information about accounting in the book, but in order not to break up the fun, exciting story, that information for finance and accounting and other things and SEC filings, that's all the exhibits in the back of the book. If people want to learn that, or if they want to learn what symbol is, what are salaries of big accounting firms for various levels and how our partners pay, for example.
[00:23:08] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. I love it. So what was your favorite part of writing this book? What did you enjoy most?
[00:23:13] Guest: Greg Adams: Yeah, you know, what I enjoyed most was just sort of reaching out for the research to some of the experts about, you know, for example, some of the book talks about insider trading or, and algorithmic trading. So quant trading, what is quant trading happening? What kind of quantitative data is utilizing in quantity compared to some qualitative data, which is a little bit more soft. So doing research like that was a riot and reaching out to some friends and they're, you know, making some old acquaintances. And since the book has been out for the past five months, it's been amazing how many folks have reached out to me that I've known decades ago, or new people have reached out to me. So it's been a lot of fun in that respect of hearing people's stories and, and saying, you know, it's finally we finally have a hero in accounting. This Dex McCord.
[00:24:11] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Is that mostly kind of the comments you hear is something around we have a hero or what? What's the feedback you typically get?
[00:24:18] Guest: Greg Adams: Yeah, the feedback I typically get is that I didn't realize that someone in finance could have such an adventurous background and understanding and do so many different things. And my own opinion, for example, when I was working in Australia, I took a helicopter, a plane and a helicopter to the middle of nowhere to a gold mine in Queensland. Now, what kind of accountants do people think accountants do those type of things? Probably not.
[00:24:48] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Mostly just do my taxes is what I think.
[00:24:51] Guest: Greg Adams: Right, exactly. Let's see you do taxes. So your accountants do all sorts of different things. And the people in finance do all different things. And that's why I get back to the finance world, the FP&A world. You're exposed to all facets, not only of companies, but you can be exposed to all facets of industries. So you're not pigeonholed into one industry necessarily like you, Paul, you know, start American Express or whatever it may be, and you've branched out to various things. And even myself, you know, I've been CFO of a technology company, of a company that put automated cameras in basketball arenas around the world that follow the action of technology services companies, but also a green oil. We are making oil out of animal fat. Another company called G oil. So various industries, which that's the biggest thing, is people say, oh, finally people can see that you're exposed and you see a lot of different industries as accountants. So maybe it's not so boring. Maybe we need to change the perception and the image of finance leaders and people in accounting.
[00:25:54] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well, my basketball fandom thanks you for the automated cameras in the arenas. That's right. Quite a diverse I don't think people realize finance in general. You know, the role they can play. I think there's often that stereotype and particularly like you said it earlier, and I've heard CEOs say it, there's really two kind of two groups or I'd say almost two people that have a 360 view of the business other than the CEO, the CFO and typically FP&A. Right.
[00:26:29] Guest: Greg Adams: Yeah. That's correct.
[00:26:29] Host: Paul Barnhurst: One CEO who came from finance. I love the way he described it. He's like, I want my FP&A team to help peek around corners, help me kind of see where we're going. Or as Carl Seidman's put it a few times, he called it, you know, one of the most important skills for FP&A people is that ability to anticipate. We're trying to help anticipate where we need to go. That's part of what the budgeting exercise is. And forecasting and these analysis we do. It's not just about doing the analysis. It's that insight and that intellectual thinking that they really want. The model is just a way to project it.
[00:27:08] Guest: Greg Adams: Yeah. That's why it's so critical that critical thinking, that business acumen to be able to forecast and project trends. And that's what business leaders are looking for. FP&A is a unique position, as you said, Paul. You could be speaking to the CEO directly or CFO directly. There's not many other groups or individual departments that could do that.
[00:27:28] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, or the CRO sometimes too. Right. All the different leaders?
[00:27:32] Guest: Greg Adams: Yeah. Operations all the time. Exactly. All the different leaders. So that's the biggest feedback. Someone one person said particular. You finally disclose that like somebody in finance could do anything in any country and be successful.
[00:27:50] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. No, I totally agree. And so a lot of people have shared that, you know, there's the fun, there's the fiction side of the book. But what do you hope people learn or take away beyond just, hey, finance can be fun. Is there some educational, technical stuff you're hoping people to get with all those exhibits? Kind of walk me through that side of it?
[00:28:09] Guest: Greg Adams: Yeah, it's twofold. One, for the person that's familiar in the finance world, is to realize that your profession is cool. I hate to say this, but I'm trying to make accountants cool again, you know, so you have been the trusted advisor for, for years. And, you know, maybe I should make a Maga hat or something. Yeah, maybe. Let's make it count again. And my protagonist definitely does that. So, you know, but for the non-finance reader to learn a little bit about accounting, to learn a little bit about what's in SEC filings, you know, how much data is in there. What's the process of companies filing with the SEC? What's the process of black box trading, for example? What do auditors do? Simple things like that. So I think a lot of people will read the book, come back and realize, say, I don't realize. I didn't realize all these things are going on in the finance world. I just thought, I have to send my expense report in again. Oh geez. And deal with the accountants on all the errors. But you know, most folks come back and say, wow, I didn't realize all these things are going on behind the scenes.
[00:29:23] Host: Paul Barnhurst: You know, numbers are the language we speak, but especially, you know, FP&A, other areas that are forward looking Treasury. Accounting, critical but it's kind of that backward looking. Nothing wrong with that. But let's get the historicals right. You get into the financial and and that forward looking. And there's so much strategic stuff that goes into it beyond just the language of numbers. And you know, accountants can play a role obviously in the strategic. But typically you know, their focus. The general accountant not as you move up is, hey, how do I make sure these books are right? How do I make sure we have good data? As I always like to say, FP&A's best friend is a good accountant because I can't do my job without that good accountant.
[00:30:11] Guest: Greg Adams: It's like the other thing with green shades, too. I always have to warn people, you know, that, you know, there is some violence in there, there's some sexual tension and romance that goes on, but there's also numbers in there. But the scariest thing to them is that there's some accounting equations in the book, too, so they could be scared by that as well.
[00:30:30] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right, well, let's make accounting equations great again. Yeah. Again, I don't know.
[00:30:37] Guest: Greg Adams: No, but yeah, you know, as you know Paul, to our hopefully some of our readers know that, you know, the CPA industry in particular is sort of in a crisis. Since 2000, there's been a 40% plus decline in people taking the CPA exam. That is various reasons. One reason is they extended the credits that you almost need a fifth year of college to take the seat.
[00:30:58] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Correct? Yeah, I know that.
[00:31:00] Guest: Greg Adams: That's starting to be addressed and corrected, but, you know, part of it too is image and image and branding. And I opened my book in some sort of way, changes that image and brand to realize that, really, this is a very cool profession. There's really neat things you could do. You can travel the world as an accountant and see different things. So the pipeline issue is a real, real problem for the finance industry. And, hopefully my book will do a small part of getting someone you're young in college or high school that reads this book that might say, hey, wow, maybe I should be an accountant.
[00:31:37] Host: Paul Barnhurst: There you go. If you want to be an accountant and you're not sure, read green shades first.
[00:31:41] Guest: Greg Adams: That's it. That's right. Exactly.
[00:31:43] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Or pick up the phone and call Greg, you know. Yeah. Listen to this podcast. Lots of options.
[00:31:48] Guest: Greg Adams: But yeah.
[00:31:49] Host: Paul Barnhurst: There is one. He's working to make that difference. Love it. So I think we've done a good job kind of talking about the book. That's been a lot of fun. I'd like to get your thoughts. You've been a CFO at a lot of companies. What's the number one thing you're looking for? Characteristic traits, skill set, however you want to define it when you're hiring an FP&A professional.
[00:32:10] Guest: Greg Adams: The biggest thing is, believe it or not, outgoing personality. I want someone that gets back to storytelling. I want someone that can communicate well and present. You think I would say someone technical that's a whiz at Excel and can do all these things. But no. The number one thing I would like to see is someone who can communicate and deliver in a smart way and present their findings. You know, so true. And come up with recommendations is what bothers me the most in finance is people always presenting you with problems. And I always say, well, go away, come back with that problem and tell me what the recommendation is. And so those are the type of critical thinkers that, you know, also business acumen, having common sense and deliver what they're supposed to deliver. But that's sometimes a fault that again, get back to the technical skills. The two focused laser focused on getting the right answer when often there is no right answer. And often you do have to throw some mud pies against the wall and see which ones stick. And that's common in FP&A that you have to be bold. You have to be that voice in the room, that calm voice in the room to say, this is what I'm seeing. This is where we're heading. And boy, we better. Somebody moved our cheese. We better make some changes.
[00:33:37] Host: Paul Barnhurst: FP&A guy here today. I want to talk about the FP&A guys ultimate FP&A course bundle. This bundle includes over ten hours of content recorded by Ron Monteiro and myself. Many templates and great lessons to make you a better FP&A professional. The content includes FP&A business partnering, how to manage tough conversations, build world class relationships, and hold the business accountable. Includes modern Excel, which is a real game changer for the way you'll work in Excel. Excel tables the gateway to modern Excel. Power Query: a game changer for transforming your manual processes and loading data, and then dynamic arrays. Next, we cover modeling design principles. In this course we talk about the importance of designing models in a certain way, and how important it is that you think about design. And last but not least, driving value through smart analysis how you can conduct data analysis to be a better FP&A professional. Go ahead and sign up for this bundle at thefpandaguy.com. That's thefpandaguy.com. Use the code Podcast to save 25%. Get started learning today. Yeah, you do have to be. You have to be capable of delivering both good and bad news while staying relatively emotionally neutral. And I mean emotional instead of getting overly, you know, tied up into it. But you still have to have passion and show that you care about it.
[00:35:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: That's right. It's a different type of emotion and that and that's it takes a skill set and practice. And I tend to agree with you. I don't know if I would have said that an outgoing personality and presenting is the first thing I look for, but I've always thought the technical skills for the most part can be taught. Do I want someone with them? Yes. Are they going to have a leg up if they have those all else equal? Of course they are. I think anyone who tells you otherwise is probably lying to you. Yeah, right. Unless they just like a challenge. But you don't want someone with just technical skills who can't help with the other. There may be times it's an appropriate role. You know, I once hired somebody that is. He was a statistician and data experience, and he wasn't someone who wanted to present or is outgoing. But I need someone to fix my data on the back end. And that was his full role. You know, he wasn't a traditional for hire. I hired him for a very specific purpose and said, I'll take care of managing the relationships because until I have good data, I can't do my job.
[00:36:17] Guest: Greg Adams: That's right. Exactly. And that's a you definitely need those people in the background that can create that. You just want to try to hopefully groom them to be a little less introverted and be out there. Yeah.
[00:36:28] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And he was great. And he got better. And it ended up being a fabulous hire in this case. So I was really happy with that. So you know, we got your thoughts there. You've been a CFO for almost 30 years. We can ask you a little bit of how you've seen the role change. But let me get your thoughts on something I asked someone asked me this the other day and I was shocked. I can't remember who it was. It's been one of those weeks, you know? But he said, when do you think the term CFO first got used? When do you think people started using it?
[00:36:56] Guest: Greg Adams: Wow. You know that that is a very good question. You know, my guess would probably be in the 30s after the stock market crash, that they need someone to have a little, you know, look at the numbers. Now there's some things going on, but that it might be that old. It might be working now on almost a hundred years of the CFO role, I said.
[00:37:20] Host: Paul Barnhurst: The early 1900s, the person goes, yeah, you would have thought that 1970s.
[00:37:24] Guest: Greg Adams: Wow.
[00:37:25] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Was really the first time the CFO term started getting used.
[00:37:28] Guest: Greg Adams: You know, it's probably because the CFO role has evolved so much over the years of being a bean counter, backwards looking. Yep. You're starting in the 70s with everything changing so quickly.
[00:37:42] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Hyperinflation, the interest rates that stagflation period and conglomerate conglomerates started to become big.
[00:37:51] Guest: Greg Adams: So CEOs started realizing, I need a finance person attached to my hip. I need someone to be my advisor. And that yes, that is surprising.
[00:38:02] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I was shocked by it. I would have never guessed that. I thought you'd find that really interesting. And I think our audience will as well. It just goes to show, even though finance accounting has been around forever, this idea of finances, the value creator and a C level role and really being critical to the business is new and developing. It's in our lifetime. Yeah, not that old.
[00:38:25] Guest: Greg Adams: Very true. Wow.
[00:38:28] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So I think that's fascinating when I heard that. So speaking of being a CFO with almost 30 years of experience, how you view seeing the role change in your time?
[00:38:38] Guest: Greg Adams: You know, in my time, it's a lot more outward facing. You weren't put out as much with your stakeholders in the beginning. As a CFO, I was more in particular internal to a degree. And then as public companies became more under scrutiny and Sarbanes-Oxley and investors wanted to, investors really often want to talk to the CFO and not necessarily the CEO. Sometimes the analysts, in particular the analysts, don't even rarely talk to the CEO. Sometimes it seems like the analysts spend most of the time with the CFO. So I would say the role has changed there. Your stake, our stakeholders have increased. And not only your investors and your employees and your shareholders, obviously, but also the community. The community wants to hear what's going on from a financial standpoint. So I would say the CFOs audience has gotten wider, and the expectation that you are a trusted strategic advisor to the CEO to ensure, you know, I always told my CEOs, my number one job first is to keep all of us out of jail. We have some.
[00:39:58] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Hard to argue with that one. That's at the top of my list I really don't like. I don't look good in pinstripes.
[00:40:04] Guest: Greg Adams: Know that, because believe me, I've had a few CEOs want to do some crazy accounting and now you have to educate them. You can't do that. It's too dangerous. So yeah, the role has definitely changed in that. You know, the CFOs are much, much more involved now with all aspects of the business and really attached to the hip with the CEO, I sit in my, you know, right. The office right next to me is my CEO. Yeah. And I probably spend half the day in his office, and he's probably spending much of the day in my office. We're back. And we're that close that we're constantly communicating and talking so that is the biggest change.
[00:40:38] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, it makes sense. What about FP&A? What's the biggest change you've seen there?
[00:40:42] Guest: Greg Adams: You know, FP&A was sort of an afterthought or wasn't label as much 20 years ago. And so now it has become much, much more prominent. Now, just like the CFO and controller's always been there. The FDA personnel is a given. It is reliant because you the fire department again, they have to work with everybody in the organization. They have to see everything in the organization. But rather than telling the story of what happened, they're expecting you to say, okay, what's going to happen? What's the forecast? What's the trend, what's happening out there. And that's why it's so important, I think, in the FP&A group to get different sources of information besides internal information, go out there and get SEC filings. There's a plethora of information by industry that's buried in the millions and millions of pages that are filed each year with the SEC, and it's just a right click to get it into your download, into your Excel spreadsheet. And so it's, you know, that's important. So, the industry has changed in that I would say, just like I spent a lot of time in my CFO, CEO's office, I spent a lot of time in my director of FP&A as well in her office. Yep. Yeah. So they're really integral part now of the company. And, you know, they work with all the leaders to say this is what we need to look at. This is what I'm seeing. The trends are and this is what we have to look out for.
[00:42:10] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I hear you in many ways. You know, FP&A is kind of a mini CFO for that general manager or whoever they support. You know, we're seeing more and more FP&A people become CFOs. Yep. We're seeing more CFOs become CEOs. Yes. Interesting stat. Last year it was over 30% of S&P 500 CFOs that left their role left it to become a first time CEO.
[00:42:39] Guest: Greg Adams: Wow. Yeah. That does not surprise me at all. The back of my book of Green Shades is an exhibit. I end it with a story of the CVS CFO when they were purchased by Viacom. All of a sudden, you know, the Viacom CEO kind of kind of got it a little bit of a me too trouble. And who did they promote to CEO, the CFO. They needed to make a steady hand. And I further go on to say how much money he made when they were bought.
[00:43:06] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. Don't remind me of that kind of thing. I'm just trying to survive. I want my 10 million. 100 million. Yeah.
[00:43:14] Guest: Greg Adams: Friend of mine, I played softball with KPMG. Now is, you know, doing well on the beaches.
[00:43:19] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I'm sure we all have a few friends like that. All right. So I'm going to jump into our kind of fun fact section. I have a couple standard questions I ask people all right to get their thoughts. So we'll start with this one. In your opinion what's the number one technical skill FP&A professionals should master?
[00:43:40] Guest: Greg Adams: I would definitely say storytelling. Okay. Which includes communication and presentations.
[00:43:47] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. What about soft skills? So I call that technical. What would you say on the soft. I thought you might have flipped that. So that's the soft human will go storytelling communication. Totally agree. What about technical?
[00:43:59] Guest: Greg Adams: Technical I would say to ensure that one there Excel. Not Excel, but any power tool you know tools to use. They master that and that it's integrated with various sources of information internally and externally, unfortunately. Now, fortunately or unfortunately, I think Excel still dominates that. Technical tool, but so important to be able to leverage those tools and understand the information, the data that's going into those tools.
[00:44:32] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. You know, it's pretty amazing the job Excel has done, right. I mean, we're all going to use it. Do we sometimes abuse it? Yes. Is it ideal for everything. No. But it's a fabulous tool. I sure love Excel for a lot of things. And it's amazing how far. But, you know, is it? They like to say, if everything is in L, all you're going to use is a hammer and kind of like Excel. If you think everything is supposed to be in a spreadsheet, all you're going to use is Excel. And sometimes you need a purpose built tool, whether it's on the analytic side, the reporting side, the planning side, there are a lot of great software that can help supplement what you're doing in a spreadsheet. I say supplement because you're not going to replace the spreadsheet. It's not going to go away whether it's Excel or Google Sheets or some other alternative. You still need it.
[00:45:29] Guest: Greg Adams: Yeah, there's enough application programing interfaces to bring in disparate information into those Excel spreadsheets that it's just.
[00:45:37] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And Power Query has a lot of data connectors itself. There's you know, I was talking to a company they're getting ready to release and they'll have a freemium version. They'll pay it as well. But, connections where you can easily integrate with like 250 sources, including QuickBooks and Xero and, you know, so it's just becoming so much easier to connect your data.
[00:45:59] Guest: Greg Adams: It certainly is. It certainly is.
[00:46:01] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. So this is kind of a fun one. I like to ask because I never know people where people are going to go with this one. If you could wave your magic wand and change one thing about FP&A what would you change?
[00:46:14] Guest: Greg Adams: Oh well, first of all, first I would probably put on my FP&A hat, which Paul was nice enough he's got for those who are just listening and not seeing. Paul and I are both wearing his FP&A hat, which is a real Paul. I love this hat. He gave it to me at the Financial Accounting Technology Expo a couple of weeks ago, and.
[00:46:35] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I have to thank my wife. She picked it and at first I was kind of like a white like, we'll see it. And I got it. And I'm like, I love it.
[00:46:43] Guest: Greg Adams: I know I've been wearing it nonstop. It's great. It's raining here in New York, but it hasn't rained for months. And I wore it to the office today.
[00:46:52] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Love it. Thank you.
[00:46:53] Guest: Greg Adams: You know I got so excited about the hat, I think I forgot about the question.
[00:46:58] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I'll ask it again. If you could wave that magic wand and change one thing about FP&A. What are you changing?
[00:47:05] Guest: Greg Adams: I would say the receptiveness and perception Of what it entails from employees within the organization. Of how important it is and how you need to tie yourself to someone. In fact, if you're going to succeed in the organization.
[00:47:24] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Love it. That's a great answer. Now we're going to get moved to the a little more personal section, where we get to know a little bit more about you. We know you love writing thriller, romance, accounting, books. We'll learn a little bit more. What's your favorite hobby or passion outside of work?
[00:47:40] Guest: Greg Adams: I would say softball. I played baseball, Division one baseball in college and at William and Mary in Virginia, and I just continued to play a little bit after college, hardball, and then started playing softball. And I'm still playing. And, you know, the biggest thing about that is not necessarily the game. It's the camaraderie. It's the folks you're playing with, you know? And I even play on a coed team. It's a lot of fun.
[00:48:05] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I love it. I remember, you know, in Utah we had one of the top Fastpitch softball teams in the world, Larry H. Miller ran it. He was a big softball guy. He loved softball.
[00:48:17] Guest: Greg Adams: Yeah. So it's now for me at this age, you know, playing with younger kids is always a challenge. You have to be careful out there. But I really like that. We'll see. I'll play. I like golf and like fishing.
[00:48:30] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Like you like to get out outside and be active.
[00:48:33] Guest: Greg Adams: Exactly. You're in an office a lot. You want to be outside?
[00:48:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I hear you. All right. Other than green shades, what is one book you'll recommend to our audience?
[00:48:42] Guest: Greg Adams: Oh, yeah, so many of them. But I would say, Rise to Rebellion by Jeff Shaara. And what that is a historical fiction book about our nation and our founding fathers. But what makes it unique is that position that takes the view of both sides. Not only that, the colonialists and you know what? We're trying to they're revolutionaries of what we're trying to succeed from, but also the British and what they were trying to do. So I read a lot of historical fiction books, and Jeff Shaara and his father, Michael Shaara, the Killer Angels, about, you know, the Battle of Gettysburg. They also did World War One, World War Two books. And that kind of also helped me write Green Shades and respect that. Green shades is almost an accounting historical fiction book. With how the SEC's Edgar system developed and how XBRL came about and how quant trading started to happen. So maybe that in the back of my mind, that kind of drove me to write an accounting historical fiction type book.
[00:49:47] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. Yeah, I know, I remember when we chatted for a few minutes, you mentioned you really liked historical fiction and that that was an area you read, so it makes sense. All right. When you were a kid, what did you want to be when you grew up? Were you five year old thinking, I want to be the accountant? I'm going to guess. No, but you tell me.
[00:50:07] Guest: Greg Adams: You know, I'm. I grew up on eastern Long Island and, out on the water out there. And there was this. I met this tugboat captain once, and he romanticized the profession. So originally, I wanted to be a tugboat captain.
[00:50:23] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I like it, yeah. It's funny how sometimes you hear someone talk about it and you think that. And then as you get older, you're like, wait, no.
[00:50:31] Guest: Greg Adams: Yeah. I know. Exactly. It seems to be a little bit of a lonely job and dangerous potentially.
[00:50:40] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Definitely could be. All right, I'm gonna give you two options with this last one. You can pick between the two. If you could have an alter ego, what would your alter ego be? Or if you don't want to have an alter ego, if you could be a superhero, who are you going to be?
[00:50:53] Guest: Greg Adams: I think the alter ego would be my choice, and what I would probably want to be was would be some kind of improv actor, like Robin Williams or something. Yeah, to be able to be sharp, but, you know, be funny and have people laugh at your jokes and have a high energy. So. Yeah. So probably my alter ego is an improv actor.
[00:51:14] Host: Paul Barnhurst: You know, and it's funny enough, you mentioned improv because I've had two people on the show, Carl Seidman, Kathy Svetina, who both said one of the best things they did for storytelling and presenting was they did improv comedy.
[00:51:27] Guest: Greg Adams: Oh, really? That's great.
[00:51:29] Host: Paul Barnhurst: One of them did a year at Second City and a year someone else. The other one did six months at Second City. I've also heard if you want to be a great podcast host, that's really good to do because it forces you to be really quick on your feet in responding and things. So there you go.
[00:51:45] Guest: Greg Adams: So maybe that'll be my professional retirement. I'll do improv.
[00:51:48] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. You let me know. I'll come to New York and watch a show.
[00:51:51] Guest: Greg Adams: All right. Great.
[00:51:53] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All righty. We're going to wrap up here. I got one more question, and then we'll finish. What advice would you offer to our audience to be a better FP&A business partner? What should they start doing?
[00:52:05] Guest: Greg Adams: What they should start doing. I said the biggest advice would probably be get up from your desk and roam the halls. First of all, come into the office. As nice as it is to have remote work and it works for a lot of people, try to be in the office as much as you can, and then roam the halls and sit down and be with people and listen. Be an active listener. It's the biggest thing that AMA teaches is really active listening. And, you know, don't think about what you're going to say next, but really engage who you're with. So I would say, you know, the biggest thing is get up from your desk and talk with people in front of people. They'll tell you, maybe I learned that from my auditing days. You just don't have to wind people up to ask them what they do, and they'll go on. And so that's how you learn.
[00:52:53] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Love it. And got to tell this one story because I think you'll laugh at it. I had Bryan, I think it was Bryan Lapidus who tells the story. It might have been someone else, but they were. He was telling someone. He had this employee that did virtually no work and it was just not very helpful. But he was always talking to everybody, and he would always come back and tell him something that the finance team didn't know, and they were able to prepare for it, kind of telling how he was terrible at what his job should be. But he was also really valuable because he could kind of communicate with everybody. It always brought back this good information of what was going on, because he was always out talking to people, and I just kind of had a laugh, you know, it's like, that's really valuable to have.
[00:53:35] Guest: Greg Adams: This is he was on reconnaissance. That was it. That was his mission.
[00:53:40] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So last part here, if people want to learn more about you or get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to do that?
[00:53:46] Guest: Greg Adams: The best way is one. You can visit my website at cpa-author.com. Send me an email there. Greg@cpa-author.com. Or you can even reach out to me at AMA, at the American Management Association, at G.adams@ama.net.org. And also Paul, if anybody wants to take a AMA course and learn some of those power skills, the first three listeners, I'll comp them a course. Our courses are 2000 $3,000, so they're not cheap. 2 or 3 day courses either in person or virtual. But yeah, just reach out to me and I'll be happy to say, but make sure you say Paul sent me.
[00:54:31] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right, well, there you go. Couldn't get a better offer than that. Thank you so much for that, Greg. I have a feeling you'll be hearing from some people to take advantage of that. If not, I gotta worry about my show. If nobody reaches out, I might be like, why am I talking to all these people?
[00:54:47] Guest: Greg Adams: Yeah, exactly. Now, Paul's really great speaking with you. Can't tell you how much I appreciate it. But, you know, the importance of the FP&A professional is really escalated over the past ten years. And it's really nice to be a part of the finance world. And, now, hopefully I can make a difference on changing the brand.
[00:55:08] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well, thank you so much, Greg, and real pleasure chatting with you. And you enjoy the rest of your day.
[00:55:14] Guest: Greg Adams: All right. Thank you. Have a good day.
[00:55:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thanks for listening to FP&A tomorrow. If you enjoyed the show, please leave us a five star rating and a review on your podcast platform of choice. This allows us to continue to bring you great guests from around the globe. As a reminder, you can earn CPE credit by going to earmarkcpe.com, downloading the app, taking a short quiz, and getting your CPE certificate to earn continuing education credits for the FPAC certification. Take the quiz on earmark and contact me, the show host for further details.