In this engaging episode of FP&A Tomorrow, host Paul Barnhurst, the FP&A Guy, sits down with Mark Hansen, CFO of Entrata. Their conversation explores financial planning and analysis (FP&A), strategic business decision-making, and the evolving role of finance teams in organizations. This episode provides valuable insights into how FP&A professionals can align metrics, foster relationships, and utilize data to empower strategic growth.

Mark Hansen brings a wealth of experience as the CFO of Entrata, a comprehensive ERP platform for the multifamily housing industry. Prior to this role, Mark held pivotal finance positions at Pluralsight and Skullcandy, leading finance teams through periods of significant growth. A CPA with a master’s in accounting from the University of Utah, Mark combines technical expertise with a strategic vision, making him a thought leader in the financial industry.

Expect to Learn

• Understanding the transition from accurate forecasting to strategic decision-making.

• Why FP&A is positioned as the "center of the universe" for organizational data.

• Practical advice on aligning and rolling forward metrics to track business performance.

• How to leverage diverse experiences (the "bingo card" approach) to achieve career growth.

• Insights into hiring, mentoring, and fostering curiosity and technical skills within finance teams.

Here are a few relevant quotes from the episode:

• "Understanding unit economics, gross margin, and other granular financial details helps inform better business decisions." - Mark Hansen

• "Understanding SEC reporting is like leveling up in financial knowledge. It's the major leagues of financial reporting." - Mark Hansen

• "FP&A teams of the future will not just focus on budgeting and forecasting but also on data analytics and business modeling." - Mark Hansen

In this insightful episode, Mark shares valuable advice on career development, stressing the importance of building strong relationships, acquiring diverse skills, and being proactive in one's career progression. Mark’s focus on curiosity, technical skills, and business partnering provides a roadmap for any finance professional looking to elevate their impact.

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Earn Your CPE Credit
For CPE credit please go to earmarkcpe.com, listen to the episode, download the app, and answer a few questions and earn your CPE certification. To earn education credits for FPAC Certificate, take the quiz on earmark and contact Paul Barnhurst for further details.

In Today’s Episode

[01:57] Introduction to Mark Hansen
[02:55] Defining Great FP&A
[08:41] Lessons from SEC Reporting
[15:01] Pluralsight’s Growth Journey
[25:48] The Challenges of Metric Alignment
[32:22] First CFO Role at Entrata
[39:10] The Hardest Roles to Fill in Finance
[44:35] The Future of FP&A Teams
[49:26] Fun insights into Mark’s hobbies
[52:49] Final Takeaway: Business Partnering

Full Show Transcript
[00:01:39] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Hello everyone! Welcome to FP&A tomorrow, where we delve into the world of financial planning and analysis, examining its current state and future prospects. I'm your host, Paul Barnhurst, aka the FP&A Guy, and I will be guiding you through the evolving landscape of FP&A. For each week, we are joined by thought leaders, industry experts and practitioners who share their insights and experiences, helping us navigate today's complexities and tomorrow's uncertainties. This week, I'm thrilled to have joined me. Mark Hansen. Mark, welcome to the show.

[00:02:15] Guest: Mark Hansen: Awesome. Thanks, Paul. Appreciate you having me on the podcast.

[00:02:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I'm really excited that you carved out some time for us and we were able to make this happen. And let me share just a little bit about Mark, and then we'll jump into some questions. So Mark Hansen is the CFO of Entrata. Has been there since 2021. Prior to that, Mark was the head of finance and accounting at Pluralsight and was the corporate controller at Skullcandy. Mark also worked at EA as an assurance manager. He has his master's degree in accounting from the University of Utah and a bachelor's degree in accounting from Westminster College. So again, thanks for joining us.

[00:02:52] Guest: Mark Hansen: Awesome. Thanks, Paul. Again. Excited to be here. 

[00:02:55] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So the first question we like to ask people, how would you define great FP&A. What does that look like to you?

[00:03:02] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah, I'll start with a good FP&A. I think good FP&A means that you have excellent relationships throughout the organization. I think good FP&A and I and by the way, I think that's kind of the foundational layer. I think good FP&A is reasonably accurate at budgeting, at forecasting, at maintaining key performance indicators for the business. I think that's what good at paying is. I think great FP&A is really involved in all the strategic initiatives of the business and providing excellent analysis and decision support for the various decision makers throughout the organization.

[00:03:38] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So if I'm hearing it, the really key difference between good and great is the great really is helping with the strategic and really get involved with making sure good decisions are made.

[00:03:49] Guest: Mark Hansen: 100%. Yeah. Couldn't agree more. 

[00:03:52] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I think that's why I like how one. I don't know if you probably have seen or used Grammarly. Yeah, everybody knows about that. So I had the opportunity to chat with their CFO recently and I'd never heard it so succinctly said finance. I think it applies to finance. He's like our job is to help the business make better, faster decisions.

[00:04:09] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah. Couldn't agree more. There's so many decisions to be made. And I think just making sure that they're being considered with that financial lens, understanding things like, you know, unit economics, things like gross margin, kind of at a granular level, I think that the financial lens, you know, really influences a lot of decisions.

[00:04:27] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Totally agree. I mean, we've all seen it where, you know, someone thinks it's a great idea and you start walking them through it and the economics and you're like, okay, maybe this wasn't such a great idea, but on the surface, it seems great until you really dig in and go, oh yeah, our return is 15 years away or whatever it might be.

[00:04:46] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah, exactly. Yep. 100%.

[00:04:48] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yep. So you worked for EY for six years as an assurance manager. Maybe talk a little bit about that experience.

[00:04:56] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah. Happy to, you know, so in my view, I think there are certain jobs that can propel you or really fast track your career. And what I mean by that, Paul, is, you know, spending five years or more in these jobs will really make you eligible for certain positions that, when you leave, may have only been available after, you know, call it 10 to 20 years of industry experience. And in my view, working for a big four accounting firm is one of these types of roles. There are others out there as well. I think, you know, I probably put investment banking in that category, private equity, working for one of the big consulting firms, maybe working for some of the larger law firms, although these, you know, routes, if done well, you know, do result in a fast track. They do require significant, you know, kind of dedication of time during those years. You're going to work a lot like that's a simple way to say it. So I worked here at DUI in the Salt Lake City office a long time ago. I loved my experience there. You know, I worked on a wide range of companies. You know, before we started recording, you and I were talking about a nuclear services business that I worked on.

[00:05:59] Guest: Mark Hansen: I worked on a hardware business software business, an airbag manufacturer, like, really just got exposed to a wide range of industries. I studied accounting in college, as you mentioned, but I really learned how accounting and finance works. You know, at EY, I truly started to understand how businesses work and what high performing finance teams look like. Maybe most importantly, I developed an excellent network there. You know, David Jolly was our office managing partner. He's now the CFO of Domo, Sean Goff, Howard Stoker, they were a couple of partners I worked a lot with. They're still at EY. Tracy Chrisman's also somebody that I worked a lot with. So really important relationships and a network of people. Some of them are still at UI and in public accounting. A lot of them have left and gone on to do other, you know, kind of really cool things. So for me, it was really just a fast track. They were busy years, hard years, maybe even some years I didn't like, but overall just set kind of an excellent foundation for my career.

[00:06:55] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, no. And I've heard that a lot. I agree with you. Big for investment banking consulting. You're going to be worn out whenever you decide to leave. A lot of people get burned out because you work a lot of hours, but you also cram a ton of learning into that time of different industries and get to see a lot of things that, like you said, can help fast track the career. So if that's really the focus in those fields interest you, it's a great way to start. You just want to go in eyes kind of wide open, so to speak. So you're not like, oh wait, I didn't expect to work more than 40 hours. Why am I still here?

[00:07:29] Guest: Mark Hansen: For sure. Yeah. And I think, you know, those models are definitely more of an apprenticeship model. So I think, you know, a lot of people like that, that you do have somebody that's kind of a mentor, that's training you, that's done it before promotion tracks or, you know, pretty laid out, pretty guaranteed, you know, whereas as long as you do a good job, of course. Whereas kind of in the corporate world, I think, you know, kind of moving up in the organization is a lot more gray and undefined.

[00:07:54] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. I worked at one company where the joke was one of the offices I was at. The only way you got promoted was if somebody died in their chair because nobody left the rolls and I finally left the company. I'm like, okay, this is probably not the way for me to advance in my career. And I was supporting a portfolio of a product that had declined in 20 years, about 99% of its revenue within the overall business. It was one of the dying areas. I'm like, let me put two and two together. Probably not a way to fast track my career here.

[00:08:24] Guest: Mark Hansen: You want to be in the growing area for sure.

[00:08:26] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So I mean great learning, but yeah, it was definitely time to move. I'm curious, you've done quite a bit of SEC reporting. I know, I think all three companies you mentioned, Pluralsight, Entrata and Skullcandy have been public at one time or another. I think you're probably there. I know you're there for a lot of that. What was your takeaway from dealing with SEC reporting? How has that helped you like in your role today and just in general?

[00:08:47] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah, so Entrata's still a private company.

[00:08:50] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Okay, I wasn't sure on Entrata. I knew the other two were public. 

[00:08:54] Guest: Mark Hansen: Definitely a Pluralsight was public. You know, some of my time there, Skullcandy was public. And I think maybe for those that don't know, you know, SEC reporting is the process of putting together financial reports like, you know, quarterly financial statements or 10-q, annual financial statements or 10-K, certain, you know, periodic reports like, you know, 8-K s and I think for me, like why SEC reporting matters is I think it just gives you that next level kind of advanced knowledge of how financial statements work, how financial reporting works as well. I think, you know, as a private company. And again, I'm at a private company now. It's kind of the minor leagues of financial reporting. And the major leagues of financial reporting is a public company, right. It also gives you kind of a front row seat to work very closely with the CEO and CFO of an organization, maybe even when you're still, you know, more of a junior role. And then you have, you know, really active role on things like audit committee meetings, earnings call preparation. So I think, again, maybe just back to, you know, kind of that foundational layer like, you know, EY was a great start for me, an excellent foundation. I've kind of thought about my career like a bingo card. Like there are certain kind of experiences that I want to be able to check off on the bingo card to, you know, kind of enable me to get to the positions that I want to have. I think understanding SEC reporting is one of those things. Right? Like, it just helps you, you know, have a deep understanding of financial reporting. And I think it's evolved to where, you know, historically it was things around, you know, kind of GAAP only. And I think, you know, now concepts like, you know, R and other, you know, kind of what I'll call finance concepts are becoming more and more a part of SEC reporting.

[00:10:31] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. No, I hear you on that. So I'm curious what's left on the bingo card.

[00:10:37] Guest: Mark Hansen: Haha. You know, I talk a lot to, you know, kind of our team at Entrata. We've got a very high performing team, very ambitious folks. You know, a lot of them want to become CFOs themselves about, you know, what are all those kind of squares on the bingo card to then ultimately become a CFO one day? For me, my ultimate goal was to be a CFO. You know, I knew that a long time ago. And so it really was kind of, you know, checking boxes on, on the experience, you know, in a variety of areas for the last many years. So, I don't know, like, I love being a CFO. I want to be a CFO for a long time. You know, I love to learn, too. So there's still, you know, things I need to learn to be successful. But right now, I'm just happy to be a CFO and hope to be a CFO for a long time. 

[00:11:21] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So that was kind of always going into it. That was the career kind of long term goal for you. Did you know that coming into college, or was it really just as you came out of school, or when was it like, I'm going to be a CFO? That's the goal?

[00:11:31] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah. It's interesting. Like my grandfather was a pretty successful, you know, kind of small business person. He owned a bunch of sewing machine and fabric shops, and he was very influential on me. He's like, go get a business degree. I'm like, okay, well, what does that mean? You know? And he's like, well, if you want to understand business, you need to get a degree in accounting. Accounting is the language of business. Like, okay, I served a church mission in Brazil for a couple of years. I was the finance secretary for one of those two years, so that was kind of my first little step into finance. I liked it. I came home at Westminster College, and I had a really good Professor Allen who was, you know, very influential on me. And he's like, well, you're doing accounting. You're gonna get your accounting degree. If you want to learn accounting, you got to go into the big four. It's the only way to learn. So I'm like, okay, like, I better go do this big four thing. So I figured out how to, you know, get into the big four. And then like, once I got to the big four, I really started to see how businesses work.

[00:12:30] Guest: Mark Hansen: I saw it, as I mentioned, you know, kind of high performing finance teams. I interact with a lot of CFOs, one that you and I talked about earlier, and I was like, that's what I want to do. So I would say, you know, really at ease where I develop that kind of passion to, you know, become a CFO and then just realize, like, hey, there's a certain series of events that need to happen, a set of skills and experiences that I need to develop to be eligible for that one day. I don't know that you need to check off every, you know, kind of letter on the bingo card, and some of them you can check off with, you know, kind of a probably a stronger check mark than others. But I do believe, like you want very well-rounded experience. It's not sequential necessarily either. Like a lot of it is just based on opportunities that arise based on circumstances. You know, somebody leaves, you need to step in. You know, you change jobs like there's a lot of different ways to get different letters on the bingo card.

[00:13:24] Host: Paul Barnhurst: It makes a lot of sense. It's no longer, you know, for the longest time, you always hear you just climb a career ladder and the ladder is against that wall and you just got to go up the rungs. But it feels like, you know, for many CFOs and other roles as well. There's a lot of this nowadays. It's not this. You have to go the straight path and this is the next role. A lateral might be best. Maybe you're going up. Maybe you take a step back to gain an experience, whatever it might be. Maybe you come from a totally different direction. You see all of that with, I think, CFOs today, and I think it's good, but it also sometimes is hard when people are like, well, what do I need to do? Well, there are certain skills you need to have, but you don't have to follow a certain path to gain those skills.

[00:14:03] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah, that's exactly right. And you know, for me, I got my first interim CFO job, which was very short lived, maybe a month, maybe two months, almost ten years before I became a full time CFO. You know, so it took me a while, like from, you know, and I was an interim CFO a couple of times. So, you know, definitely. I think it's a long path. I think you have to be thoughtful about, you know, getting those skills. And I think being proactive as well, like, I have a strong view that you're in charge of your own career progression. Like you need to make it happen yourselves. Hopefully you can develop excellent mentors and stuff along the way that can help you. But ultimately it's on you.

[00:14:40] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And I love that because, I mean, the reality is it is you hear people sometimes I just keep getting bad performance reviews. Well, like figure out why go to a different company or do something differently. Right. If you're just doing the same things over and over and complaining about the results, then you got to start wondering, are you the problem?

[00:14:59] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah, exactly. 100%.

[00:15:01] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. So, Pluralsight, you spent several years there. You know, your head of finance and accounting. Are you kind of talk a little bit about that experience? And just in case people aren't familiar what Pluralsight did. A little bit about the company.

[00:15:13] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah. So I was at Pluralsight for about seven years. Got there on Pluralsight was really small. Pluralsight is an online learning platform for technologists. You know, really focused on, you know, not beginners, but, you know, kind of professional level software developers helping them stay current on their skills, which, you know, technology changes. You know, maybe as fast as anything. So it's important that they stay current. When I got to Pluralsight, we were really small, maybe $30 to $40 million in revenue. We had a very small finance team, very basic systems and processes. You know, the way I found out about Pluralsight and there never was a job posted a guy named Brett Barlow, who's one of my good friends. He works at Skullcandy with me. He had gone to Pluralsight, become the CMO there, told me about the role and really, you know, kind of when I was at Skullcandy, we were a public company, and I realized what I wanted to do was really go to an earlier stage, you know, kind of software or subscription type business grow up with the business and then ultimately help take it public. And, you know, I guess I picked well, in Pluralsight, like, I went there, you know, we were pretty small and really, you know, just experienced tremendous growth while I was there in 2014, we we raised $135 million in our series B financing, which I think that was the largest private funding round in Utah history at the time. 

[00:16:40] Host: Paul Barnhurst: That's a big series B, that's a really big.

[00:16:42] Guest: Mark Hansen: Big series B, especially at the time. Qualtrics, I think, passes within a couple of weeks with an even larger round. You know, and ultimately at Pluralsight, we went public in 2018, you know, had a ton of fun, you know, kind of going through that process ultimately, you know, sold that business in 2021 to Vista Equity Partners and, you know, really just learned a lot there. Like, I think my title probably stayed the same, you know, kind of my entire time there. I like to use kind of the player coach analogy, you know, kind of for any leader. And, you know, kind of when I got there, I was just a player. There was nobody to coach, even though I was in kind of a leadership role. And then, you know, over time that the team grew a lot. We had a super awesome team there, you know, tons of, you know, very smart, talented people. Just really enjoyed my time there. I think Aaron Skonnard, who was the CEO, is a phenomenal leader, learned a ton from him and had excellent mentors too. Like, you know, James Budge was a CFO that I worked for. James was an awesome mentor for me and included me in a lot of different things that maybe I shouldn't have even been included in. And then same, same with Greg Woodward, who was the CFO who hired me. So, you know, I've been fortunate to just be around a lot of good CFOs that, you know, have shown me, you know, how to do things, how to operate. And I think that prepared me well. You know, by the time I became a CFO myself, I'd already, you know, been an interim CFO a couple of times and had worked with, you know, a number of really good CFOs.

[00:18:06] Host: Paul Barnhurst: When it comes to business planning, staying ahead means planning smarter, whether it's forecasting, budgeting or long term strategic planning, you need a solution that's built to scale with you. That's why more growing businesses turn to workday adaptive planning, designed to empower organizations to move beyond spreadsheets and into a connected, agile future. With powerful AI, Workday Adaptive Planning delivers insights that help you make better decisions faster. Our advanced data visualization and powerful reporting tools make it easier to elevate your budgeting, planning, and modeling. It's time to start planning smarter. Discover how at www.workday.com. Yeah, no. The mentors and the people we work with have such a huge difference. Both the team that we manage and the people above us, particularly in helping develop us, are critical. If you're if you have bad bosses that aren't willing to help you develop, you still have to own your career. You might want to look elsewhere because good mentors and good development is just invaluable.

[00:19:25] Guest: Mark Hansen: 100% agree.

[00:19:27] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So I'm curious, you've mentioned a couple of times we're going to kind of go a little different here. You've talked about, you know, great teams and wanting to develop. And how do you make sure you have a great team? How do you develop the team and how do you think about that as a leader of just, you know, making sure you have the right people and you're doing the right things for them to develop and meet the needs of the business, kind of the whole leadership. How do you think of that side of things?

[00:19:49] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah, I think this is really important. And I think it's something that's, you know, never done. And you're always, you know, worrying about thinking about, you know, I've been fortunate to, you know, build teams really at the last couple of places I've been, you know, Pluralsight, the team was really small. And when I got to Entrata, there was an accounting team, but there was no FP&A team, no concept of FP&A, even though we were a pretty big business. So, you know, I obviously spend a lot of time in the hiring process. I want to understand, you know, kind of people's skill sets. I wanted, you know, check references, talk to people that have worked with these people, been in the trenches, you know, kind of know what their skill sets are, what their personalities are. So I think that's where I start spending a lot of time, you know, kind of on the recruiting process. I think from there then, you know, just spending a lot of time with the team. Like, I think, you know, communication is just so essential. I do a daily standup with my team. I have for a long time. I still do a daily standup every single day. Understand, you know, kind of what's going on, what are roadblocks, how I can be helpful, you know, spend a lot of time what I'll say just on tactical things, but then also make sure we're carving out time to talk about, you know, career paths, like, what is it that they want to do on their own bingo card? Where are they at? What experiences do they want to have inviting them to things maybe that they otherwise wouldn't be invited to? I think, you know, any person in a meeting usually has two purposes.

[00:21:15] Guest: Mark Hansen: Either they're there to contribute to the meeting itself, or they are there to learn so that when they are the ones in the meeting needing to contribute, they will know what it's like. They'll be ready to contribute. And I think that's really important just to start to get, you know, kind of different people exposure to, you know, kind of different areas of the business meetings with external stakeholders, bankers, investors, others. So I think, you know, something that I try and spend a lot of time on, I do, you know, a lot of one on ones, both with my direct reports and I do a lot of skip level one on ones with people who aren't my direct reports, especially with, you know, kind of high performers on our team to make sure, you know, they're being heard and that, you know, kind of they're, you know, as they think about their own bingo card, like they are, you know, kind of working on, you know, what they think is important for, for their own career progression.

[00:22:04] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. And I love you mentioned not just your direct reports, but those skip levels. I remember doing several of those over my career. And it always felt nice that, hey, they've carved out time to talk to me like I'm not their boss. I can pick their brain. And they've kind of moved up a little further. And I always found those really valuable. 

[00:22:21] Guest: Mark Hansen: 100% Agree.

[00:22:22] Host: Paul Barnhurst: It's good to hear you're doing that. And I agree with you. A lot of it is spending time with the team, which it sounds like kind of going back to the hiring process. It sounds like you do a lot of really trying to understand who they worked with and things when it comes to FP&A. Is there one skill or one thing you're really looking for them to demonstrate? Is there a trait or a characteristic that really stands out to you when you're interviewing for that?

[00:22:44] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah, I think. You know there's obviously, you know, kind of two sides of the equation. There's, you know, kind of maybe IQ and EQ, right. And I think both are very important. You know, kind of within FP&A and there's obviously different roles within FP&A. I think, you know, probably the most important trait is that somebody is curious, in my opinion, like, because a lot of things can be taught, right. Like if it's a smart person, you can really teach them anything. So if I had to pick one trait, I would say, you know, it's somebody that's curious that wants to learn that they know how to develop relationships. They can Kate, I think as you talk about, you know, kind of really hard skills as you start to talk about, you know, kind of some of the more advanced team members, you know, I think modeling skills, which I know you spent a lot of time on are very important. And, you know, obviously a lot of modeling is still done in Excel today. I think experienced with certain systems, we use adaptive, which is a workday product and a product, you know, some experience with tools around, you know, kind of app. And I think is important. And then I think even more advanced kind of data skills, like in my view, the FP&A, you know, kind of team of the future, it's not just budgeting, forecasting. It's a lot around, you know, kind of modeling data analytics. And I think in my view, too, like, I believe that FP&A should be the center of the universe for data within an organization. And so, you know, different data skills, I think, you know, things like SQL, you know, I think are important. I think, you know, different analytics tools, whether that's, you know, Domo, Tableau, whatever it is you use. I think, you know, those those skills are super important. And I think, you know, the FP&A teams of the future, like that's what they're doing.

[00:24:20] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I agree with you. Having those strong analytic skills, I was fortunate enough I did report writing for a year with the BI implementation, did a lot of SQL, and it was invaluable throughout my career to understand how data works, to be able to have those conversations and get how the tables and the structure and those type of things help so much. When I'm pulling reports and trying to clean up data and understanding that has to be normalized. Like, you know, when you work at Excel and you do a lookup, your data doesn't have to be normalized. You can have duplicates. You can have that when you start working with SQL. I was just training a team this week, and they had done this big, huge process and lookup to move it to Power Query. And I'm like, hey, you got to realize there were duplicates here and here and here, and none of your numbers would have matched when you got done. So that's a totally different thing that most people don't think about, because you're not taught that in a typical finance degree or, you know, in most corporate jobs, something you kind of have to learn by either getting thrown into some data transformation or having had a data type role or job somewhere along the way.

[00:25:21] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah, that's exactly right. And I would say, you know, as I think about FP&A team and we don't have a massive team at Entrata, but I would say every person on our team, I would say is really good with data. Like they have the SQL skills. They're excellent in Excel. They're curious, you know, they work in you know, they'll work in Domo or Power BI. Like, you know, just really good with data. And I think that's like I said, you know, I think it'd be really important for future FP&A teams.

[00:25:48] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Agreed. So I want to step back to Pluralsight for a minute, because one of the things you mentioned on your resume that I thought was interesting is you had to help develop and maintain all the SaaS metrics for the business. I think anytime you're trying to align metrics across the business, it's a little bit like herding cats.

[00:26:04] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah.

[00:26:04] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So talk about that experience and how you went about kind of making sure everybody's on the same page in a line when it comes to SaaS metrics.

[00:26:14] Guest: Mark Hansen: Makes sense. Yeah, I could spend honestly a whole podcast. 

[00:26:19] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I'm sure we could.

[00:26:20] Guest: Mark Hansen: And I think, you know, I think it's really important for any software business to have good, high quality SaaS metrics that are used to run the business. It's not just used to run the business, but it's then used in kind of fundraising processes as well, whether that's, you know, raising an A series A, a series B, going through an acquisition. Like, I think you just want this data off the shelf, you want to refresh it, you know, kind of every single month. And I think it's confusing. Like what does that mean? There isn't a gap, you know, for R for example. So I'll tell you how I've thought about it. You know, just acknowledge there's, there's other ways to think about it. Of course. I would say for me, the most important data set to have at any software company is your R by customer by month. Some people simply refer to this as like a customer cube. And from this one data set, nearly all of your important SaaS metrics can be derived. Right. So R for a software company typically I think should be on a p times Q model or price times quantity for each customer. And I guess what I mean by that is, you know, quantity is typically the number of licenses or seats that have been purchased, and price is the contractual price per license or seat. And there can be variations on this, you know, depending on the industry. For example, at Entrata we charge our customers based on the number of apartment units they have.

[00:27:47] Guest: Mark Hansen: So our quantity of apartment units instead of licenses or seats. So if you have this, you know, P times Q is what I call it data for each customer for each month. This then allows you to perform an ARR roll forward each month. Right. And this roll forward. You know you list out your beginning R balance which again, you know by customer, you know what your new ARR is. So these are new logos or customers that you didn't have in the comparison period. You then know what your down sell amount is in that period. So again that's the aggregate dollar amount of customers that got smaller in that time period. You know what your upsell amount is. Again that's the aggregate dollar amount of customers that got bigger during that time period. And you know your churn. Customers like those are the customers that you lost. And I think that this roll forward is really important is I think this really can drive all of your metrics. So as people talk about things like gross retention, gross retention in my view is calculated just off the ARR roll forward. It's just your beginning ARR plus your down sell plus your churn. And then divide that by your beginning ARR right. Net retention. Same thing calculated from the roll forward above. You also know your number of customers you know from this p times Q data sets. So you can do a roll forward for the number of customers you have. The beginning customers, New customers.

[00:29:06] Guest: Mark Hansen: Churn customers. Ending customers from that same data again. We're still in the same data set. You then can know things like your logo retention. You know, it helps with things like what's the average dollar amount per new customer? We're adding per new per customer we're losing. What's the you know, what's our magic number. And then you start to look at efficiency metrics to things like, you know, what's the lifetime value. You know, obviously you have to bring in some costs, but you know, LTV to CAC. Really again, just back to that one data set. I think, you know, from that you can really derive all of these metrics. So I think, you know, to answer the question, I think, you know, for us at Pluralsight, honestly, it took us a it was early, you know, kind of in SAS there wasn't, you know, there wasn't a clear model out there of what to do. We were kind of grounded in GAAP revenue and billings. And there's like so many different metrics out there. I think, you know, once we settled on this kind of p times Q data sets, you know, we let people see it, vet That it. And just realize like, hey, we've been making this way too complicated. We can really derive all metrics from this one data set. Let's make sure people feel really good about this one data set, and then you know the metrics that are derived from it. They're not controversial. It's just math based on the data.

[00:30:20] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I think that's great is to get everybody aligned on that data. Set the core set of what it is, how you define it. Make sure you're all operating from a similar source of truth type of thing versus having totally different numbers. I like how a guest said it the other day. He goes, I don't say source of truth because there's never really one source of truth. He's like, operate from a similar source of truth. I think there's probably some truth to that. You know, I really like that. And the, ah, the roll forward, right? I mean, when you think about it, it's so funny how much of modeling is just a corkscrew. Start with that ending balance. You do a beginning, you put all the changes, you get to a new ending. You do it again. Yeah. You know, there were so many of them. That's all it is. 

[00:31:04] Guest: Mark Hansen:  Yeah. And I think that's where some of the accounting discipline comes in as well. Like, I, you know, people talk about the accounting month end close. I think everybody knows what that is. But I think there's a similar close on you know, you're obviously there is an FP&A you're hopefully doing a monthly or quarterly, you know, kind of forecast refresh. But I think the metrics should be under that same cadence. And every month you kind of have a close on the metrics, right? You've done the Calcs, you've reviewed them, you've blessed them. And then they're locked. Just like the accounting period locks, you know, kind of the KPI metrics lock as well. And then they're not changed. And then, you know, you kind of revisit the next month, the next month when you're closing. But I think just having that discipline, you know, really just helps, you know, kind of with the integrity of the, of the, of the metrics.

[00:31:45] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. I had a situation when we were first trying to change all our reports. I was pulling them from a system. The numbers would keep changing. And, you know, my boss was going crazy as we were trying to figure it all out. And I'm like, no, I get it. I know you need consistent numbers, but it's still way more accurate than what we had before. Bear with me for a while as we work through this. Yeah. He's like, I can't you like it was not. It was not a fun time trying to get through that, to get it to a good spot. So I've definitely been there. Where locking them down, just like you lock the end of the month like, nope, that's going into next month. We're not reopening the books for that.

[00:32:18] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yep. Exactly.

[00:32:20] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So cool. So what has been your first CFO role? You've been there a couple of years now, right?

[00:32:26] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah. Almost four. I'll be four years in February.

[00:32:29] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So was the experience what you expected or how has it been being a CFO for the first time?

[00:32:35] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah, I would say in a lot of ways, yes. It's been what I expected because I worked with CFOs, you know, for so long, I think in some ways know, like, you know, you just kind of never truly know what it's like until you're actually, you know, kind of in the role. As I mentioned before, I've been fortunate to have kind of really good mentors. You know, I mentioned a couple of them, you know, kind of just taught me how to be a good CFO. Maybe one more that I'll mention. A guy named Gary Crittenden was on our board of directors.

[00:33:03] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I know who Gary is.

[00:33:04] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah. And then Gary, you know, is probably, you know, the most or one of the most successful CFOs that come out of Utah. You know, he's been the CFO for some of the biggest companies in the world. And, you know, was fortunate to spend a lot of time with him, understand how he thinks about things. Feel fortunate that I was well prepared to be a CFO. You know, we raised money shortly after I joined Entrata from really good investors. You know, they have very smart finance types that are on their teams as well, that I interact with a lot that I learn a lot from. So I think for me, like becoming a CFO, like it wasn't like I made it. I'm done learning. I'm still learning a lot myself. Like I'm still kind of relatively young. I'm still challenged a lot. I have people on my team that are much smarter than I am. Much better modelers, forecasters, you know, kind of everything. So I think, you know, just making sure I continue to stay challenged. And I'm having a ton of fun doing it.

[00:33:55] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well, from the calculations I had, you're younger than I am still. So you're really young. Otherwise, that means I'm getting old and I don't want to feel old.

[00:34:04] Guest: Mark Hansen: So we're all getting old, unfortunately.

[00:34:07] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Come on. Don't bring reality into this. I'm curious, has your view of FP&A changed? Like how important you think it is or how you think about FP&A? That's really becoming a full time CFO, or maybe even the first time you were an interim CFO. I'm just kind of curious if that lens has changed your view.

[00:34:24] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah, I think, you know, generally CFOs, they grow up on one of the two sides of the house. They either kind of grow up through the controllership or they grow up, you know, kind of in FP&A. And I think, you know, candidly, FP&A is probably the better way to grow up. That's not how I grew up. But I think, you know, really early on, even in my school candy days, I saw the value of FP&A. I've always worked very closely with FP&A. I think for any high performing finance organization, accounting and finance have to be, you know, very tied at the hip. A lot of good communication. A lot of interaction. A lot of shared financial reporting. So I think I've always had a strong view of FP&A. You know, at Pluralsight as well. I think, you know, at Entrata, I view it as kind of like the central nervous system in the business. Like we're really involved. You know, we have a business partner model. You know, every you know, a team member in FP&A is partnered with every executive, you know, kind of at Entrata, involved in kind of all big decisions, all big things around, you know, kind of budgeting. And so, you know, a lot of analysis that we do even on operational things in the business. So I think, you know, my view always was that it was important as a CFO, you know, I love FP&A like I spend a ton of time with FP&A. I spend more time with FP&A than any of the functions that reporting to me. I spend a lot of time with accounting too. But for sure FP&A is the most.

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[00:37:08] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah,and I love to hear that. And you're seeing that more and more. And I agree with there. There's kind of the two traditional paths. There's a few other ways. But you know, I'd say 90% plus of the time nowadays is controller or FP&A. And FP&A is becoming the more common route nowadays. The number that are coming through FP&A just keep growing because in so many ways you're when you're partnering with the executives or general managers, you're serving in many ways like a mini CFO, you still need other things on the bingo card, some audit experience, or an understanding of treasury or fundraising that you may not necessarily get your FP&A role. You may, depending on the company, but often you don't. But I think that it's the strategic and the commercial And the leadership and that opportunity to influence that FP&A has, that you may not get as much in a controller role. You can get some of it for sure, but your take is that kind of how you see it?

[00:38:00] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah, I think that's right, Paul. I think, you know, to maybe balance it out. I think the challenge that FP&A folks have sometimes is that they don't have as deep of an understanding of the financial statements themselves, how they work and how they're interrelated. And so I think each side of the House has a challenge to learn the other side of the house, because, you know, you're probably going to be better at one of them, you know, kind of just where you spend your time than another. Of course, I think as you think about becoming a CFO one day, you have to be good at both of them ultimately, or else you're not going to be a CFO. And so I think I think it's totally fair. I think that FP&A is, you know, probably the better way to grow up to become a CFO. It's not the only way. It's not the way I did it. But I think, you know, if you're on the side of the house that I was the Comptrollership. And you want to be a CFO. It's on you to make sure you're getting the right FP&A experience. Are you spending time on things like, you know, revenue forecasting? Do you understand how budgets work? Do you understand how business partnering works? Do you understand how certain KPIs or SaaS metrics of the business work? Definitely. Somebody from the Controllership side of the house can become a CFO, but I think it's a little easier on the FP&A side.

[00:39:09] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, and I'm curious. Speaking of FP&A, I've heard there's some studies done by AFP, and I'm curious, your take, if you would agree with this, that they say the hardest role typically to fill in finance departments is those FP&A roles. Has that been your experience or what do you think? I mean, I know they're all important, but as far as filling and finding the right people, is there a certain area that you find harder than others?

[00:39:31] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah, I think it's hard to find good FP&A talent. I think here in Utah too, like we have a lot of talented people, but also a lot of companies looking for those talented people. So I think that's right. Like, it's hard to find the right people. And then, you know, once you find them, you got to keep people motivated, right? Like, you got to keep making sure, you know, they're getting promotions, new opportunities, developing their skill sets. So 100% agree I think it's a hard role to find.

[00:39:56] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. And so I'm curious. This is kind of a fun question we ask from time to time. Can you share a strategic moment from your career? You talk a lot about maybe strategy and experience, where some kind of strategic insight you shared with the business made a real difference, made a significant difference for the business going forward.

[00:40:15] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah. You know, I've been fortunate to work for a lot of really good businesses. I think I have probably been involved in a lot of the strategic decision making. Maybe I have a bad memory, but I honestly can't think of any one moment or experience. I honestly don't remember the little things like that. I remember the people and I think, you know, that's what's most important to me is the people, the experiences we had together, how we were able to kind of, you know, grow and learn together and ultimately add value to the business, right? Like, I think, you know, I've been fortunate to be at businesses where we've added a lot of value to the business. And in the time that we've been there, and I think, you know, I've been fortunate to do the same thing in Entrata. Like I mentioned, I started with literally no FP&A team when I joined Entrata. Not a single person at that point in time, I think we were over $200 million in revenue.

[00:41:01] Host: Paul Barnhurst: That's for no FP&A.

[00:41:03] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah, pretty big company for no FP&A. You know, we're more than double kind of that size now. And I think now we don't have a big FP&A team, but we have, you know, kind of a solid FP&A team. You know, that's kind of adding a lot of value to the business. That's what I remember. Like that's what I view. My value add is, is like, hey, you know, we brought this important function, these people of the team that I think are helping, you know, kind of drive some of the most important decisions the business is making.

[00:41:29] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And I love that. It sounds like you think about more. Okay. Do we have the right people here or are they driving value than specific experiences per se? It's those relationships and how those are impacting the business.

[00:41:41] Guest: Mark Hansen: That's right.

[00:41:42] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. And it's kind of funny when you said 200 million. And I was talking to somebody the other day, they just joined a new, you know, CFO of a new company, and he's like, I got in and he had a little bit of FP&A and he goes, but I had two FP&A people and all they were doing was the board deck, nothing else. It's like, that's all they're doing. I'll just get rid of them and do the board deck. Like, you know, I need a real FP&A function. And it was a $250 million business, and I was like, that's painful. Yeah, it's the first thing it did is let's go get a person to manage FP&A.

[00:42:11] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah. You know, I think it's important that the day to day happens. I think, you know, the board deck is important as well. You know, that's something that I spend a lot of time on. But yeah, the board deck definitely should not be your full day job.

[00:42:23] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. And so that's what surprised me. I'm like, wait, I have two people and that's their full time job. Like, yeah, something's wrong with the way this has been run. Right. You know, so it was a good kind of eye opening for him. So this is a fun section we have. It's our FP&A section where we ask a couple just general FP&A questions for everybody to see what they think. And the first one is more of a hypothetical, kind of curious to see where you go if you had to pick between bottom up or top down forecasting for the rest of your career, and you could only do one. Which one would you pick?

[00:42:54] Guest: Mark Hansen: I'm going to go with Bottoms Up.

[00:42:55] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Why?

[00:42:56] Guest: Mark Hansen: I think, you know, my view is I think the budgeting process generally starts with top down. Like the top down kind of guides you on what you think it could look like. What could make sense? I think the bottoms up though is reality, right? Like in a software business, if you're selling an enterprise, for example, you've got to do your quota build like add up. You know, what is the quota we currently have on the street, which is just the number of people times what we think the quota is going to be by sales rep. What capacity is that? What capacity do we then need to go higher in terms of what our plan is for next year, to be able to hit the numbers that we want to? I think that you can start, you know, kind of with, you know, with tops down, I think as, like as a philosophical thing. It's kind of a straw man. But I think to me where the rubber hits the road is bottoms up. When you go kind of do the full quota build, you do the whole revenue modeling, you do the full cost build, you know, kind of with your current, you know, kind of roster of employees plus the ones you plan to hire. I think that's where precision comes in. Like I think that, you know, you're not going to be precise if ultimately it's not on a bottoms up basis.

[00:44:07] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I agree. And I really like how you said reality. It's often where you realize where the opportunities are, where the shortfalls are. If that strategic number you had in mind at the top is achievable because we've all been there where you get there and there's this big gap and you're like, okay, without something fundamentally changing, I don't see how we close that. We can get close, but we can't close it. And so I think having that bottoms up is really important. So I could see why you'd pick that next one. How are you thinking about generative AI? Is that something your staff is using, or how do you guys think about that at Entrata?

[00:44:40] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah. So, you know, internally at Entrata we use Google Gemini, you know, kind of for employees. And I would say generative AI is being extensively used on our Entrata platform. Keep in mind Entrata is effectively, you know, we're like an ERP that specifies, you know, specifically for multifamily as it relates to our finance team. I would say we're using generative AI on a pretty limited basis. You know, we're doing some basic stuff like, you know, generating job descriptions and other things. Sure. I think that we're experimenting and seeing like how it can add value. I think as it relates to kind of finance, our view is it's still kind of early days. Like, are we seeing massive time savings because of something in generative AI? I would say no, we might be laggards or, you know, slower adopting than other finance teams. But I would say we're not seeing a ton of efficiency gains from it yet at this point.

[00:45:30] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Okay. No, that's fair. And I've heard that from others. So I was curious kind of where you think you're at. What's the number one technical skill we need to master as FP&A professionals?

[00:45:39] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah. So I mean, I would say understanding financial statements is table stakes. So I'm going to just put that to the stats to the side. I would say number one technical skill in my view is really modeling. And I think, you know, a lot of modeling is still done in Excel. I mentioned earlier just, you know, certain technical skills like, you know, SQL, you know, having, you know, an experience with certain data analytics tools. I think probably being agnostic in how you can work in those tools too, because every business is different, whether you know, you use whatever, you know, Tableau, looker, power, BI, Domo, like, I think you've got to be able to, you know, kind of pick up different tools as well because as I mentioned, in my view, you know, kind of FP&A teams are also becoming data teams to really help with decision support. You know, you've got to be able to look at, you know, large quantities of data and most importantly, synthesize it down, you know, to, to help, you know, kind of drive the right decisions.

[00:46:33] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. No, it makes sense. And that's one of the most common answers we hear is financial modeling, I say. I think that's number one, probably followed closely by spreadsheets is number two because yeah, they kind of go together in so many ways. So not surprised to hear that. What's that number one soft or human skill we need?

[00:46:50] Guest: Mark Hansen: The number one soft skill I would say is relationship building. Like I think having a working relationship is really just essential to being a good business partner. You know, throughout the organization, I think it's probably the old cliche, Paul, that, you know, nobody cares how much you know until they know how much you care. Like, you've got to establish the relationship, have good communication, or no matter how good your analysis is, it's just going to be ignored.

[00:47:15] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I agree, so often analysis kind of dies on the table because we don't know how to manage the relationship or influence or communicate. You can be great technically, but if you don't have that or have somebody who can help champion that for you, a lot of good ideas don't go anywhere 100%. All right. This is kind of a fun one we did recently, and I always love to see how people answer it because they go all over the place. So you have a magic wand. You could change one thing about FP&A. What would you change?

[00:47:44] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah, I would say, you know, and if this is, you know, kind of for all organizations, I probably would make FAA and data, you know, kind of all owned together. You know, within an organization, I think that, you know, just the level of objectivity and integrity of the data will be higher, you know, to help drive good decisions. And I think, you know, with waving the wand, too, I would I think I would want all the FP&A team members to have really good technical skills, really good modeling skills, be very advanced Excel users. I think, you know, just a team that really has these advanced skills will help drive good decisions throughout the organization. I think, you know, we talk a lot about Excel. You mentioned, you know, board slides earlier. I think that's also important too, that you have good, you know, kind of PowerPoint and Google Slides skills as well, because I think that gets to the storytelling component, right. Like, it's important to have good relationships. It's important to be able to do the analysis. It's important to be able to tell the story as well. Like I think all three of those are very important. And what you'll find sometimes in FP&A is somebody is really good at one of those, but maybe not two of them, maybe not all three. I need to be really good. In fact, you probably have to be good at all three, right? Build relationships. Maintain those good communications. You have excellent technical skills, and then you can tell the story as well.

[00:49:05] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So that's all. We want a bunch of unicorns. I like it.

[00:49:10] Guest: Mark Hansen: Exactly. And those people do exist by the way. I am fortunate to work with some of them.

[00:49:15] Host: Paul Barnhurst: No, I know there are some fabulous people out there. I've worked with some great FP&A people, and it definitely is a role we're asked to do a lot, and there's a lot of great FP&A professionals. I just had to have a little fun with you. All right. We're going to move to the get to know you section where I ask some kind of personal questions. So our audience gets to know a little bit more about you. Favorite hobby or passion? What do you like to do in your spare time?

[00:49:37] Guest: Mark Hansen: Easy for me. I love to ride mountain bikes. I help coach the mountain biking team at our local high school here. I love to ride bikes. Like, that's kind of my thing. I started out doing rode bikes. I'm a big mountain biker. I try and go many times a week, go right up to the high school team. That's my thing.

[00:49:54] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Love it. Great. This is a perfect place for it. You're in a great area there for a lot of good, a lot of good riding. Utah's fabulous for mountain biking, for sure.

[00:50:03] Guest: Mark Hansen: As good as anywhere.

[00:50:04] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah I agree. If you could recommend a book to our audience, what book would you recommend?

[00:50:09] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah. So, you know, we talked today a bit about relationship building. You know, I would recommend a book called The First 90 Days by Michael Watkins. It talks a lot about, you know, kind of starting out at a new organization, what the most important things are, how to navigate it. You know, when you first get there. I think I read that actually as I was joining Entrata, it was super helpful for me. So I think it's really helpful if you're starting somewhere new just to prioritize what's important. I think sometimes when you go to a new organization, especially if you have some level of experience, you want to start adding value as soon as possible, and you may even see low hanging fruit of things that would be easy to change or do. And I think it's good to just remind yourself first, hey, go build those relationships. Build the trust first before you start suggesting to change things, because people don't want to hear from the new guy about how things should change until they actually understand you and actually develop a trust with you.

[00:51:02] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, something you don't know early in your career. At least I did. You know, you start somewhere. Oh, I forgot about doing this. And they're just rolling their eyes, looking at you like you don't understand how this business works. Like, just be quiet, all right? Favorite travel destination? If you can go anywhere in the world tomorrow. Where are you going?

[00:51:17] Guest: Mark Hansen: Man, we live in such a beautiful world. And Utah itself is such a beautiful state for me, it's Hawaii. I love Hawaii. It's just so different than anywhere, you know, kind of that we live and, you know, enjoy a little bit slower pace, like, you know, life goes at a pretty fast pace here. And it's nice to slow it down once in a while. Hawaii is probably my favorite place to visit.

[00:51:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I like it. If you could have dinner with one person in the world today, who are you taking to dinner? 

[00:51:43] Guest: Mark Hansen: I mean, I think it's a finance guy. Well, the answer I have to give is, Warren Buffett, right? Like, I think it's just such a fascinating character. He's probably the best investor of our lifetime. He's just a pretty unique individual. I make it a point every year to listen to their, you know, kind of annual meeting that they do that's usually kind of put out on a podcast, I think. You know, I think they think about the world in a very interesting way. I think in a lot of ways different than the way, you know, a lot of others in Finance and Wall Street are thinking about the world today. So, you know, I think he'd be fascinating to have lunch or dinner with.

[00:52:14] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, we definitely, we've got that one a few times. When he said think differently, the first thing I thought of is his opinion of EBITDA. I started my career at American Express. And so, you know, our CEO kind of has a similar view as Warren on EBITDA. And so I went to my first private equity and started using. I hate this metric. Now I understand it and I've used it at quite a few companies. But, you know, I've never been the hugest fan just because of that kind of roots of my first finance role, where I spent a good part of my career was American Express. And, you know, he was the number one shareholder.

[00:52:44] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah. Very interesting guy.

[00:52:47] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah for sure I agree. All right. If you could offer one piece of advice to our audience to be a better business partner. What would you tell them to start doing.

[00:52:57] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah, I think can be kind of a theme I think of the podcast, Paul, but I think I would say, you know, build good relationships with your internal customers, you know, and I think one way to do that is to show how you can add value, like be very responsive to them. I'm always a little surprised how some people in organizations are not responsive. You're an app. Just remind yourself that you are a cost center and you know you need to then add value. The way you add value is by serving your customers well, and I think your customers want answers fast. Like they want good answers. They want answers fast. So I think really just making sure that you develop the relationship, I think, you know, maybe just back to the three things. Make sure you are developing your own skills so you can add more value. And then, you know, storytelling like be succinct, be able to tell what's going on. You know, people are busy, have big jobs, and they want to be able to, you know, kind of have the data synthesize for them, tell them what it means, tell them what the punchline is, get them the answers.

[00:53:54] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Got it. No, it makes a lot of sense. And I think storytelling is a huge one. I think there's a lot of, you know, great material out there to get better at it. But it's about practice for sure. All right. If someone wanted to learn more about you or possibly reach out, you know, they heard the podcast, what's the best way for them to do that?

[00:54:11] Guest: Mark Hansen: Yeah. Feel free to send me a message on LinkedIn. That's the only social media site I'm on. You can also find me on Strava if you happen to be a biker runner, which I think Strava is far more interesting than LinkedIn. 

[00:54:22] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I know Strava.

[00:54:23] Guest: Mark Hansen: But feel free to reach out. I'd be happy to engage.

[00:54:26] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. Thanks. Well, appreciate you joining me for some time today, Mark. And I know it's a Friday afternoon. So there you go. So you can enjoy your weekend hopefully no more work. And it was a real pleasure having you on the show.

[00:54:38] Guest: Mark Hansen: Awesome. Thanks, Paul. I appreciate you having me.

[00:54:40] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Thanks. Thanks for listening to FP&A tomorrow. If you enjoyed the show, please leave us a five star rating and a review on your podcast platform of choice. This allows us to continue to bring you great guests from around the globe. As a reminder, you can earn CPE credit by going to earmarkcpe.com, downloading the app, taking a short quiz, and getting your CPE certificate to earn continuing education credits for the FPAC certification. Take the quiz on earmark and contact me the show host for further details.