How Excel Competitions Transform Data Professionals into Experts Using Power Query and VBA
In this episode of Financial Modeler’s Corner, host Paul Barnhurst aka The FP&A Guy talks about the electrifying world of Excel Esports at the Financial Modeling World Cup (FMWC) in Las Vegas. This special episode captures the energy and innovation of the event, showcasing interviews with top competitors, including Excel MVPs and data enthusiasts, while exploring how Excel competitions push the boundaries of modeling expertise.
The episode features Josh Aharonoff: Microsoft MVP, "Your CFO Guy," specializing in dynamic financial modeling and consulting. David Fortin: Excel expert, Microsoft MVP, and creator of the World of Warcraft-themed FMWC case study. Jaq Kennedy: UK-based actuarial consultant and Excel enthusiast, sharing personal stories and insights from the event. Amber Johnson: Industrial engineer turned Excel champion, known for her creative modeling approach.
Expect to Learn:
Insights into the competitive world of the Financial Modeling World Cup and the role of Excel Esports.
Unique perspectives on the creative use of Excel, from real-world modeling to themed case studies.
How Excel innovations like Power Query, dynamic arrays, and VBA are transforming data work.
Personal journeys of Excel enthusiasts and their favorite tips and tools.
Why participating in competitions like FMWC can rapidly enhance your financial modeling skills.
Here are a few quotes from this episode:
"I’ve spent 24 years working in Excel, and competing here has tripled my knowledge in just two years." - Jaq Kennedy
"Competing is less about beating others and more about seeing how much you’ve improved." - Amber Johnson
"Creating a case with input from Blizzard Entertainment was surreal—it brought my gaming passion into Excel." - David Fortin
The Financial Modeling World Cup is a celebration of creativity, community, and growth. Events like these provide an experience of learning from the best in the field, or simply embracing the love of Excel.
Follow Josh:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshaharonoff/
Website - https://www.yourcfoguy.com/
Follow David:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-fortin-cpa-816b20b5/
Website - https://linktr.ee/Piggybankaccountant
Follow Jaq:
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaqkennedy/
Follow Amber:
Follow Paul:
Website - https://www.thefpandaguy.com
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/thefpandaguy
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@thefpaguy8376
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In today’s episode:
[01:27] - Introduction and Event Overview
[03:39] - Interview with Josh Aharonoff and David Fortin
[10:12] - Horror Stories and Excel Lessons
[12:25] - Excel Preferences
[23:04] - Interview with Jaq Kennedy
[30:14] - Rapid Fire with Jaq
[33:27] - Interview with Amber Johnson
[42:22] - Closing Thoughts and FMWC Invitation
[43:02] - Giles Male's Anthem
Full Show Transcript
[00:01:27] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Welcome to Financial Modelers Corner. This week we have another special episode. This is part two of interviews I did while attending the Financial Modeling World Cup in Las Vegas. Amazing event. Come join me next year. Come compete. Get better at modeling. Get better at Excel. All right, so in this episode we have a great lineup. We have Josh Aharonoff Excel MVP, Microsoft MVP. David Fortin. Microsoft MVP. I have both of them together. Going to be chatting back and forth asking a lot of great questions. What they presented on what they liked. David will tell us how he created the case for the final on World of Warcraft, and how fun that was for him. Josh will tell us about his presentation. He did what he enjoyed about the event. So we're going to go ahead and have that clip first. Then we will have a clip by Jaq Kennedy, then Amber Johnson, and then I'll go ahead and wrap up at the end. But before we do that, I want to encourage you, if you have it, listen to episode one, if you have. Great. Second, I want to roll for about 45 seconds or so. The song that was created for part of this event, the song was by Giles Male. If you can get an appreciation of this playing in the arena and how much fun we had, it's kind of a cheesy song. He uses the term the best keyboard cappers in the land. Some other fun stuff that only Excel nerds would appreciate. We're going to go ahead and roll that clip.
[00:03:05] Music: It's the battle of the Titans. The best keyboard tappers in the land. They've all been training for this moment. Who's getting stuck in the sand? It's the Excel World Championship. Who's going to win? It's the Excel World championship. Who's going in the spreadsheet bin?
[00:03:38] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I hope you enjoyed that clip. Now we're going to go ahead and roll the first clip with Josh and David. Hope you enjoyed this interview. So I have here with me David, the piggy bank accountant Fortin. And Josh, you're a CFO guy?
[00:03:53] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: That's right.
[00:03:53] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Aharonoff. All right. You know, we can have you guys come on the stage next year in the finals with those nicknames.
[00:03:59] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: Yeah.
[00:04:00] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So anyone who doesn't know what we're talking about, we're here. At what? Why don't you tell our audience what we're at?
[00:04:05] Guest 2: David Fortin: We're here at the Microsoft Excel World Championship in Las Vegas, Nevada, and we are actually witnessing a championship on Microsoft Excel. Yes, it does exist.
[00:04:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yes. And they do nicknames as they come down the tunnel for all the contestants. So last year they had last minute. They asked them all to come up with nicknames and some of them were like, I need to change my nickname. Like, it was bad because, you know, they had no time to think about it or all of a sudden you're going in 10s. Give us your nickname. It's like, I don't know who this. And they're all running down the tunnel. It was pretty funny. All right. Josh, why are you here? Tell us why you came to this event.
[00:04:40] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: A number of reasons. First, I had to see with my own eyes to believe that there's an Excel competition out there. Yes, it does exist. I also wanted to network and meet other Excel MVPs. Two in a row right here that I'm with. And I had a talk that I gave yesterday, which was also a lot of fun.
[00:04:56] Host: Paul Barnhurst: What did you talk about?
[00:04:57] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: I talked about the budget versus actuals report and why that's my favorite report, especially in a finance and accounting function, because it shows you where the company you thought was going to go, where it actually went, and all the variances that you can put a story to.
[00:05:11] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. David, would you talk about I know you talked.
[00:05:13] Guest 2: David Fortin: Yeah. So yeah, I was here for many reasons. The first one was.
[00:05:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: To drink, right?
[00:05:18] Guest 2: David Fortin: Yeah. To drink, gamble. Gamble and smoke cigarettes. I don't smoke. That's a joke. That's a joke. But we're in Vegas. You know, it's a party. Party city. I was about to say party room. That's a party room. All right, so I was here to actually, they asked me to coauthor the finance case. So the case where people go into Excel and actually do some calculation in Excel.
[00:05:38] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And how was that? Again, they do what calculations. I like that that's good calculations.
[00:05:42] Guest 2: David Fortin: Yeah. So they do calculations in Microsoft Excel and actually has a theme. And they asked me to actually write the case this year. The theme is World of Warcraft, a video game I played all of my life. Right.
[00:05:54] Host: Paul Barnhurst: How many hours?
[00:05:55] Guest 2: David Fortin: 20,000.
[00:05:57] Host: Paul Barnhurst: 20,000. Are you impressed, Josh?
[00:05:59] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: Just a little bit.
[00:06:00] Host: Paul Barnhurst: How many hours have you spent on video games?
[00:06:03] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: A little less than 20,000.
[00:06:05] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I bet. Yeah, a little less. I'm not sure if we combine the two of us. We could even get to 20. It's impressive.
[00:06:10] Guest 2: David Fortin: And I would love to be exaggerating, but I'm dumb, you know? It's in my DNA. It's who I am, and that's it.
[00:06:15] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Right. Didn't we just talk about that?
[00:06:17] Guest 2: David Fortin: Yeah. You do you. That's really important. They asked me to do that. And then when. And they also asked me to be the emcee. And I speak French in life, and I don't know what the mic is. I thought it was a rapper, so I was like, I don't want to.
[00:06:30] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Be MC hammer.
[00:06:31] Guest 2: David Fortin: Yeah. They don't want me to be. To hear me rap, you know? So yeah. So I did the MC for the Active Cell Conference because it's not only a championship, it's a conference. That's why Josh spoke. And then someone got sick, and then they asked me to speak as well. I spoke about Copilot and Excel, which is a company that I do.
[00:06:48] Host: Paul Barnhurst: How many days of training was there?
[00:06:50] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: The days of training?
[00:06:52] Host: Paul Barnhurst: How many days of training do people get here? You have the event is like 2 or 3 days of training.
[00:06:57] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: I guess two and a half days to be exact.
[00:06:59] Guest 2: David Fortin: 14 hours to be fair.
[00:07:00] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Did you guys have a kind of a favorite presentation or moment from the training, like something you learned? You're like, wow, I didn't know that. I know you both loved each others. You can't choose your own. You can't choose each other. So, David, what was your favorite?
[00:07:14] Guest 2: David Fortin: Lots of great speakers, I think. Yeah. One of my favorite. Ian Schnoor. I would say the first day. Ian Schnoor. Really great guy. A lot of experience. He sold his business in training for me. That was really inspiring. He's a cool guy from Canada.
[00:07:31] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Shout out as he is the sponsor of my podcast. Financial modelers corner by FMI, cake the exam. Yeah, I highly recommend it. So I'm glad you mentioned him. What was it about his presentation that really resonated with you?
[00:07:43] Guest 2: David Fortin: Yeah. So it was all about all kind of tips and excels. How to analyze your financial models. A lot of things I didn't even know like control, backslash. And I just like, you know, like, that's gonna sound humble, but reals recognize reals. Like, I just felt like the guy knew what he was talking about. It felt good, you know?
[00:08:00] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, it's very clear he knows his stuff.
[00:08:03] Guest 2: David Fortin: Yeah, exactly.
[00:08:04] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: Level of detail. Yes. I'm saying.
[00:08:05] Guest 2: David Fortin: Talking about CFA exams and stuff. Yeah.
[00:08:07] Host: Paul Barnhurst: He loves teaching. And funny story about him if you ever ask him. So first time I ever interviewed him he said college was really hard for him. So he deliberately tried to be super engaging in his training because he slept through most of college because he didn't fill any of his professors were engaging. Yeah. So if you check it out, you should listen to it. It's really interesting. And frankly, I slept through most of college, so I can relate to that one. All right. What was your favorite one, Josh?
[00:08:30] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: There were a few that I really liked. Andrew let us off and he is the three time world champion. So just hearing about how he structures his Excel files and a lot of the things that he said, I was like, oh, I do that as well. And like I never really asked anyone or learned that from anywhere formally. So just hearing that, like, naturally the things that he thinks are best practices are things that I'm doing. Like that was very validating. I think Giles gave a hilarious speech. I really enjoyed that one. And his video at the end also was really nice.
[00:08:59] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yes, Microsoft shared that on their LinkedIn channel today. Oh it did. So just so our audience knows, why don't you tell them what he did? What's the video?
[00:09:06] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: So he created this video about him becoming an MVP. And he hired like a full production studio and musicians and cast and literally made a whole music video out of it. And you would think when you look at it that he spent like tens of thousands of dollars doing it. It was so professional. I was just like, how did you do that? It was hilarious.
[00:09:26] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, and I actually know he spent a very good amount. His sister owns a dance studio, so that helped. And then you hear his AI bit.
[00:09:33] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: Brother in law also was the one who made the song.
[00:09:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. And did you hear, you have heard his AI financial modeling World Cup Video. That's one. So he created a song, he has a violin. He's a musician. He played violin. He considered being a professional musician, I think piano as well. And so he used I and wrote all the words and created a song for the competition. And then Microsoft kind of picked it up and they shared it in the arena. And amazing. So a fun story. All right. So let's see I gotta have a little fun with the two of you. So you both have done my rapid fire. Yeah. But before we get to rapid fire, we're going to do a question I didn't get to ask you guys earlier. Josh, I know you have a horror story. You've seen a few financial models. What's the worst model you've ever seen? No names. Protect the innocent.
[00:10:21] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: Can I name myself?
[00:10:22] Host: Paul Barnhurst: You can. Chris Riley did. He told me about one where he had to take a picture from one model, record the number and enter it in another model he built early in his career.
[00:10:31] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: So I had a really bad model when I was first starting out. I was fortunate enough to be in this situation where my boss kind of like pushed me into the deep end and I didn't have a crazy amount of monitoring around me. And when I submitted the model to the client, they were just about to raise capital, which is very common in the industry that I'm in. And the investors replied back saying, hey, are you sure it makes sense to spend your entire marketing budget next month? And when I open the file, I realize that, like, you know, they spend like $5,000 a month and I was like $300,000 next month. Like some crazy thing that, like, you would think the most immature person would be able to identify. And we unfortunately have lost the contract after that. My boss was very nice and he recognized like, hey, I get it, you're still kind of starting out. But we eventually did win back the contract and I won back their hearts. So it does have a happy ending.
[00:11:18] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And I'm guessing going forward the marketing budget was never 300,000 in one month.
[00:11:23] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: Oh it was.
[00:11:24] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Unless they really grew a lot.
[00:11:25] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: I dream of having a business one day that could spend $300,000 on Marketing Monday at one month.
[00:11:30] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Don't we all, right, David, what's your story?
[00:11:33] Guest 2: David Fortin: I think it's not me. I'm gonna put the blame on someone else. But I had an employee at some point and we had this huge Excel file, lots of pivot tables, which was feeding the board of Director deck, you know, all the presentation. And at some point I just got into the Excel file in the dashboard tab, which, you know, every pivot tables were there and there were some lines that were just missing. So it's not like the pivot tables was not like full. It was the beginning of the pivot table, empty lines and then the end of the pivot table. So I'm not sure what happened with this file, but I know sometimes when we open this file, we had a pop up saying, hey, some pivot tables are overlapping or something like that. And I think my employee just clicked on okay. And she didn't realize, you know, like because Excel was actually telling us. So that was probably our worst Excel mess. I would say.
[00:12:25] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Nice. All right. We're gonna do rapid fire. Then we'll have one more question and then we'll get back to the event. So we're gonna go we're gonna go round robin here. We'll start with David, go, Josh, and we'll just work through each of them. Okay. So you both give an answer. We'll see where you're different versus the same. Yes. Yep. No it depends. You could elaborate at the end. Okay. So all right. At the very end of the round, we're going to go all the way through. And then we'll let you each elaborate on 1 or 2. All right. Alright. So are you ready? David you're going to start with you. Circular references. Yes or no? Nope. Josh. No VBA and models. David. No. Josh. No. External workbook links. Nope. No dynamic arrays?
[00:13:06] Guest 2: David Fortin: Yes.
[00:13:07] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: Very much so.
[00:13:08] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Fully dynamic models?
[00:13:12] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: No, I recommend I'm not cool enough to know how to do that.
[00:13:16] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Okay, David, is the three statement model the most important thing for an FP&A professional?
[00:13:23] Guest 2: David Fortin: No.
[00:13:24] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Josh.
[00:13:25] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: Yes. And Paul is going to kill me, but I still stand by it.
[00:13:29] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. To have that one. Because I knew we'd get disagreement. All right. Should financial modelers learn Power Query?
[00:13:34] Guest 2: David Fortin: Yes, I did bat it out. Yeah.
[00:13:37] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Right now we're going to switch it up and go to Josh first. Power BI.
[00:13:40] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: I'm actually not too familiar. I hear good things, but I don't know if it's really necessary.
[00:13:46] Guest 2: David Fortin: Necessary for financial models. That's the question?
[00:13:49] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah. Should financial models in power BI. Do they need to know it? What's your thoughts?
[00:13:53] Guest 2: David Fortin: No. They can go with Tableau.
[00:13:57] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Python in Excel?
[00:13:59] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: I wouldn't say necessary, but definitely useful.
[00:14:02] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I would totally agree with useful.
[00:14:05] Guest 2: David Fortin: Yes in the current era. Yes, for the next five years, but maybe not in the past five years. Yeah.
[00:14:09] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. Will AI ever build the model for us?
[00:14:14] Guest 2: David Fortin: Yes.
[00:14:16] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: I think it's already there.
[00:14:17] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. So you think it's already there?
[00:14:19] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: I was using ChatGPT, and I was creating a video, and I asked it. I had my actual data, and I asked it to create a budget out of the actual data. That was believable. And it actually sends back a file with four different tabs for each department with a very relevant structure and all the information I want. It still needed some tweaks, but I was amazed it was able to even, like send me a file.
[00:14:38] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I've had to do some files for budgets and asked to give the assumptions. So it's definitely at a very basic level, is there? I think the more complex you get into, the harder it's going to be, and you still need human judgment. Like, I'm not going to trust all its assumptions. I mean, so all right, our financial model is the number one corporate decision making tool. David. No. Yes, yes. Why do you say no?
[00:15:01] Guest 2: David Fortin: Because I think dashboards can be better.
[00:15:05] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. Why do you say yes?
[00:15:07] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: To me, a financial model should really include a dashboard. But a dashboard doesn't always necessarily include a financial model. And I just feel what's great about financial models is you can not only understand where the future can be with the company based off of certain levers, but you can also understand the past. You could do what if analysis, you can zoom out, you could zoom in. That to me is what makes a great financial model.
[00:15:28] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. So the next question is which one of you is the most famous MVP? And he pointed out himself and you pointed at him. Well done. Thank you.
[00:15:41] Guest 2: David Fortin: But it doesn't matter, right? It's just we're friends.
[00:15:43] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Exactly.
[00:15:44] Guest 2: David Fortin: Exactly.
[00:15:45] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. Pointing to him.
[00:15:48] Guest 2: David Fortin: So that's it.
[00:15:49] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I'm off camera. So they would be like, who are you pointing at? See, I got this figured out. All right, if somebody wants to get better at financial modeling, what advice would you give them, David?
[00:15:59] Guest 2: David Fortin: I would say that to pick an influencer and to follow this influencer that you actually like, because there are many of them, but follow one that you like and then learning. Yeah. Follow Josh and learning from this person 1 or 2. Only person you know not 25 different I think. Focus on one person. Learn from this person. And why I'm saying that is myself. Since I started doing content creation on Excel, I got so much better because I looked at the competition and you know, it's not competition at the end. It's friends, you know. So yeah, focus on one influencer and go for it.
[00:16:32] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. What's your advice, Josh?
[00:16:33] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: I would say focus on two things. One is capabilities and then two is efficiency. So capabilities really just understand like everything that you could do in Excel just go through Excel's ribbon. That's where 98% of the functionality can be found. Really get familiar with all those different functions Power Query and Power Pivot in terms of efficiency. My favorite thing is using keyboard shortcuts, especially if you're in client services. When you're on a call with a client, they don't really have a second of patience for you as they're talking. You should be able to just use your keyboard to just make their vision come to life.
[00:17:07] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right, I love it. So let's see. We'll start with David on this one. What's your favorite lookup function?
[00:17:13] Guest 2: David Fortin: Xlookup.
[00:17:14] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Xlookup. Why?
[00:17:16] Guest 2: David Fortin: Because I was vlookup before, and, you know, not being able to put the data on the left of your unique ID reference, it's just just kills me in An extra carpet's going to the left or the right. Horizontally. Vertically. It's just. It's just so good if error like, nested in there.
[00:17:35] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. Josh?
[00:17:35] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: Xlookup is great, but my personal favorite is index match. I'm old school. You don't have to worry about version compatibility. I also like using each of those functions independently. And index function is also just like so simple to understand the syntax, it really just requires three inputs your data, which could be an entire table, like David was saying in two directions, the x axis and the y axis. And you just use your math to replace the x axis and the y axis. So index math stuff we might go to.
[00:18:04] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So one of my favorite going back to your favorite presentation today from Ian from our nice friend from Canada from FMI, he will say when people say index match it goes, oh, are they married? Is that one formula. Because like I can use a Vlookup in a match because I was like, well you can't make it dynamic for your number in Vlookup. He's like, sure you can. You're doing it with index. It's the exact same thing.
[00:18:23] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: But can you meet directions.
[00:18:24] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Look a mess? You can do two directions. If you choose to use the choose columns or some other things, you can make it.
[00:18:29] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: With Vlookup. You're saying you need to choose columns.
[00:18:32] Host: Paul Barnhurst: You can make in Vlookup. Yeah. Because what you can do is in your Vlookup your value, you can make that the dynamic. So it looks up what column it's in. There's some ways you can do that. And also it's harder. But you you can you can do the row. Well what you could do is you could make it so it doesn't have to be in the first column for your lookup. And you can do the root. But yeah the two way. But yeah there's with lookup I think you could do a two way. But we're total nerds. All right. Now everybody's going to be like, all right, I'm done. What are these idiots talking about? No, it's pretty much true. You got to keep it interesting. All right. Either of you have a good Excel joke for us? A good non Excel joke. Come on. We need one joke before we finish.
[00:19:10] Guest 2: David Fortin: My English level is not good.
[00:19:12] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: Two pretzels were walking down the street and one was assaulted.
[00:19:18] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Nice, I got it. Dad. Joke. Well done. All right, so, Josh, if people want to know more about you and the amazing work you do, where should they go?
[00:19:26] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: You could check me out at yourcfoguy.com. I also have an Excel add-in models.com. You could actually get that for free. Or just hit me up on LinkedIn or my YouTube channel Your CFO Guy.
[00:19:37] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And David, since we talked about this last time and I haven't covered it here, I'm going to get just you for a minute. You built the case for tonight. What was that like? Give me a minute about the case.
[00:19:46] Guest 2: David Fortin: That was actually insane because I played World of Warcraft my whole life.
[00:19:50] Host: Paul Barnhurst: 20,000 Hours.
[00:19:51] Guest 2: David Fortin: Yeah, 20,000 hours. And I actually got into a call with Microsoft asking me, you know, they saw the boxes behind me, and they were like, oh, we could do the case on the World of Warcraft. And then we started doing the case. We actually got the input from Blizzard Entertainment, which was a dream for me. Got on a call with Iron Azarkina. I have issue with his last name, which was a dream for me. I saw him on YouTube every time announcing the new expansion of the game, and I just could not believe it. I actually snapped a picture of him without saying, like on a zoom call.
[00:20:20] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I'm telling you about that. Snuck in a picture. Well done.
[00:20:22] Guest 2: David Fortin: Yeah, he's probably gonna sue me. And I won't be able to pay because I'm poor. So? So, yeah.
[00:20:28] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Well, you'll be rich soon.
[00:20:29] Guest 2: David Fortin: But I made it with Andrew as well, which is the founder story of the FMWC Financial Modeling World Cup. I could not do it without him. He helped me a lot. I was more of the guy that came in with the contacts, but also an understanding of what you can do and can't do in Excel. And he made all of the solution and everything. I could probably not even solve the case, to be honest with you, because this is next level. Very hard.
[00:20:52] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, I couldn't either. So we're on the same boat.
[00:20:54] Guest 2: David Fortin: So that was super cool experience. I'm grateful for that. This is insane.
[00:20:58] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. Who's winning tonight? Where's your money?
[00:21:02] Guest 1: Josh Aharonoff: I'm not really familiar with who's competing.
[00:21:04] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right David, do you know who's competing? You got a guess.
[00:21:07] Guest 2: David Fortin: A little bit, I think. I know, I know Dim, and I know Andrew. I think Andrew is nailing it for like, three years in a row now. He's like the, you know, when big, you know, the LA Kings when they win the Stanley Cup like three, three years in a row or the Tampa Bay, you know, and I think he's the Tampa Bay guy. He's a, I don't know if he's from there. I don't think so. You know, he's a hockey player. Yep. The real player is the Sidney Crosby of Excel, I think. And. Yeah.
[00:21:39] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Perfect. Well, we'll call it there, but you can follow both these guys on LinkedIn. Youtube. We got piggy bank accountant. We got your CFO guy. Both MVP's, both amazing guys. So thank you for some time. Appreciate it. All right, let's go watch an event. All right.
[00:21:58] Host: Paul Barnhurst: FP&A guy here. And as you know, I am very passionate about financial modeling and the Financial Modeling Institute's mission. I have been a huge fan of the FMI for years, and I was super excited when they decided to sponsor the Financial Modelers Corner. I recently completed the Advanced Financial Modeler certification and loved the entire experience. It was top notch from start to finish. I am a better modeler today for having completed the certification. I strongly believe every modeler needs to demonstrate they are a qualified financial modeler, and one of the best ways to do that is through the FMI's program. Earning the accreditation will demonstrate to your current and future employers that you are serious about financial modeling. What are you waiting for? Visit www.fminstitute.com/podcast and use Code Podcast to save 15% when you enroll in an accreditation today.
[00:23:04] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right, I'm super excited for this next interview. It's about a ten minute interview with Jacqueline Kennedy or Jaq, as many of us call her. I've met her two years in a row now at the Financial Modeling World Cup. And as we got talking, she shared a little bit about how she loves excel and also a little bit about herself. She was vulnerable, admitting that being in front of the camera is hard. She doesn't mind being behind the camera. She talked about how she has autism, and one of the things she's always been fascinated with and she kind of obsesses on is Excel. And I loved her vulnerability, especially because I have a daughter who has autism, and I can relate to some of those challenges, obsessions, opportunities, and the whole I think it's wonderful. I love people that are blessed with the way they think and the things that come with autism. And Jacqueline is fabulous. Love this interview! We had a fun background. We talked about a number of different things. We were in the arena at the times. I hope you enjoy and appreciate this interview with Jaq Kennedy. One of the participants at the Financial Modeling World Cup.
[00:24:13] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: Incorporate all of these characters into your cage design.
[00:24:16] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So have you built the case?
[00:24:17] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: I have, I thought, oh, I should be wearing my case design team shirt. I've got four.
[00:24:23] Host: Paul Barnhurst: It's all right. All right, well, let's start by telling people who you are.
[00:24:27] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: I am Jaq Kennedy.
[00:24:29] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Jaq Kennedy, all right.
[00:24:31] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: I am a mid-level competitor at best and a complete Excel geek.
[00:24:39] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So you love Google Sheets. Is that what you said?
[00:24:42] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: Yeah, totally. Not even sure I know how to open Google Sheets.
[00:24:46] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And you've been here a lot of noise out there because there's the competition going on live. What do we have going on right now? Tell our audience.
[00:24:51] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: At the moment we're in the Microsoft Excel Collegiate Challenge individual finals. And we've we're having a knockout every five minutes. So we've probably just about to or just lost someone else in that.
[00:25:05] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yep. So what happens. So for those who don't know, is every five minutes they eliminate someone from the competition until they have the winner. So this is the College World Championship finals going on right now, and it's being televised on ESPN. I'm here with one of the competitors, Jaq Kennedy. Where are you from?
[00:25:20] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: I'm from the UK.
[00:25:22] Host: Paul Barnhurst: From the UK. We won't hold it against you. It's okay. Other side of the pond. I've heard it's a good place.
[00:25:26] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: I mean, it's all right.
[00:25:27] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Yeah, it does its own. I mean, we got our own independence, so we're good. All right, so what do you do for work?
[00:25:36] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: I am an actuarial consultant. Contractor. I'm looking for work right now. If you want someone special, she's here.
[00:25:45] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I'll keep that in mind. Next time. I need someone to talk about actuarial for my podcast.
[00:25:50] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: Excellent. Yeah. So I'm an Excel data consultant. I mean, technically I do stochastic modeling as well, but I've tried to avoid that and just go straight for the data wherever I can.
[00:26:09] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. So what is it you love about Excel? Why such an Excel nerd? You're self-proclaimed.
[00:26:15] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: Yeah. For one, I have autism, and it's one of my biggest special interests is Excel. It's just super exciting. There's so much that you can do.
[00:26:27] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So is that kind of always been your life interest? My daughter's autistic, so I can relate and I know so just for our audience. Yeah some people will have something that they're passionate about like their whole life. And others will get fixated on different things and it will rotate all the time. My daughter is rotating.
[00:26:42] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: So I think I'm a jack of all trades.
[00:26:47] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. Got it.
[00:26:48] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: I have lots of hyper focused interests that rotate, but there's probably two, two interests that I've had throughout my life that are consistent and I just keep doing so.
[00:27:04] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Is this hard for you to be on camera like this? You mentioned when I asked people, you said, hey, I go outside my comfort zone and do this.
[00:27:13] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: I like being behind the camera, but I'm also realize I'm never in front of the camera.
[00:27:19] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Sure, you like being the one talking to others, not the one.
[00:27:23] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: Yeah. I think it is a bit difficult. It's a bit. But it's nice to get to talk about Excel. That's the thing. Once you start talking about the thing you're passionate about, it's just the most exciting thing. And you can just keep going. Alright.
[00:27:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Tell me about the worst model you've ever seen. I know you have a horror story about talking competition.
[00:27:42] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: Yeah.
[00:27:43] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: Well, pretty much every competition.
[00:27:46] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Like, yeah, I was going to be the model I built yesterday.
[00:27:48] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: Yeah. So there was one client that we went to. There were generally. I'm the only kind of Excel specialist that they only take one of us in at a time for data, Excel, that type of thing. There was three of us in the same place, and they wanted this final reporting spreadsheet to be a bit easier to update. So it was in the days before Power Query. So, you know, they also wanted to upload the data. We had to do the VBA to manually import all the data back in those days. But we also wrote a script to trace back on the spreadsheet, all the linked workbooks, and then go into the linked workbooks and trace back what they were linked to. We got easily over a thousand workbooks, maybe up to 3000. It was a lot. And then we spent three months picking apart the web of interlinked papers.
[00:28:43] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Why anyone would ever think that's a good idea. As we talked about it earlier, I told you the one where I had a guy that I interviewed where he had 50 and, you know, and 70, and I thought that was absolutely horrible. I'm like, never. I'm sitting there trying to picture a thousand. And what I want to do right now is projectile vomit all over the carpet right here, as I think about that, because that is just disgusting.
[00:29:05] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: I feel like at least 7 or 800 of them were obsolete and had been forgotten about.
[00:29:10] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Oh, I'm sure there's no way they were refreshing all 1000 of those every month.
[00:29:14] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: No. Absolutely not.
[00:29:15] Host: Paul Barnhurst: It's kind of like if anyone's gotten the name Andrew, you see a bunch of RAF errors?
[00:29:18] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: Yes.
[00:29:19] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Right. And there's 10,000 lines in there, and you're just like, all right, I just got to go delete a bunch of them. Yeah. So. All right. Favorite thing about Excel.
[00:29:29] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: I'm going to go with Power Query. It would have been VBA at one point in my life.
[00:29:34] Host: Paul Barnhurst: She gets a thumbs up from me. You see that right there? Thumbs up.
[00:29:37] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: Power query is just mind blowing. It's game changing.
[00:29:39] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: So all right. So I tell you what Oz said when we were having the Power Query discussion. So we're talking about Power Query. And I told him how someone on the podcast one time said angels came down and there were puppies and other things. And Oz goes, yeah. Power query is my Jesus. Yeah. Or something. Talking about being Jesus. And it was John Acampora.
[00:29:58] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: Yeah.
[00:29:58] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And he's next to him and John Acampora goes okay, making religious themes. He goes I guess then Ken Puls is my Jesus.
[00:30:07] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: Was just at the university last year. I said, what a great one.
[00:30:11] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So yeah, you get it. It's fun. All right, we're gonna do this little rapid fire game. Just a couple questions. Yes or no? No. It depends. Then you can elaborate on 1 or 2. Yeah. So when building, not competition, building financial models and model. Yeah. In real world, real world applications, should you use circular references, VBA.
[00:30:29] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: Yes. Yeah.
[00:30:31] Host: Paul Barnhurst: You can elaborate on that one. We'll go there. Dynamic arrays.
[00:30:36] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: Yeah.
[00:30:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: What about fully dynamic models? Should you be trying to build them 100% dynamic?
[00:30:40] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: I'm going to go with. Yes. If you can convince people.
[00:30:44] Host: Paul Barnhurst: If you can get there. Yeah it's okay. We've had it. We get a little bit of everything on that one. Will AI build the models for us in the future?
[00:30:52] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: No.
[00:30:53] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Will excel ever die? No. Second favorite spreadsheet.
[00:30:58] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: Ooh.
[00:31:01] Host: Paul Barnhurst: She doesn't even have one. I wanted to see if you'd say Google Sheets. I was just putting you on the spot. All right. If someone wants to get better at Excel modeling, what's your advice for them?
[00:31:11] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: Just. I mean, if it's from a work perspective, get out there and try and do as many different things as possible. I think I mentioned this to you earlier. Yeah, the best learning I ever got was going from one role into another, into another, where I got to do different things and learn different aspects of Excel. So I've gone with learning VBA, Power Query, everything just gradually over the years.
[00:31:35] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. And why should someone compete in this competition?
[00:31:40] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: Every time I speak to someone and say you should take part, you enjoy Excel. They're like, oh, I don't, I don't know, I just don't, you know, I don't think I'm up for it. Maybe, maybe I'll try it. And they're a bit mushy, but a lot of people don't want to take part because they think they're not good enough. But I'm having a time of my life I'm definitely not good at.
[00:32:01] Host: Paul Barnhurst: You're all good. Be you. That's what I have.
[00:32:05] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: But for me, what I've learned in the last two years, I've spent 24 years working in Excel, and I consider myself a little bit of an expert. But I've trebled the knowledge I had two years ago by just doing this, by just being in this community and constantly learning.
[00:32:26] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So to anyone listening to this podcast, if you want to get better at Excel, it's all about practice. Yes. And if you enjoy it, do the competition. If you don't find other ways to practice, the key is spending the time. Yes, and the competition is a fun way to spend the time.
[00:32:41] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: Different ways of finding things to do. So if it is competition, if it is work, whatever it is finding different aspects.
[00:32:51] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. So someone wants to learn more about you. Maybe get in touch with you after watching this. What's the best way to do that?
[00:32:56] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: Well, I'm on LinkedIn. That's probably the main way I communicate with other extra people. And I also do a little bit on YouTube. I've been posting robot videos.
[00:33:10] Host: Paul Barnhurst: The hat is a robot. You don't know about it? Check it out.
[00:33:12] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: Yeah. So I've been posting some of those videos on YouTube and I'm on TikTok as well. I get maybe 300 views, so let's make it 301.
[00:33:23] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. Perfect. Should we go see how the competition's going?
[00:33:25] Guest 3: Jaq Kennedy: Let's find out.
[00:33:26] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. Thank you. Next up we have Amber Johnson. Or she likes to call herself Sparkly Boots. She sat behind me during the training, and we had a lot of great opportunities to chat. We had lunch together. We did an interview live at the event, so you'll hear people talking in the background as we chatted with her. But first, before I even get to her interview, I'll share a fun story. Many of you have seen this on LinkedIn. She had a shirt that said EBITDA Earnings before For interest. Therapy. Depression and anxiety. Talking about her experience. The first time she had to build a model for evaluation for EBITDA. She comes from an engineering background and had to get into modeling. But it's a really fun story. We tell it during the interview. She shares some of her favorite experiences and speakers from the event, and we'll go ahead and roll that now. Hope you enjoy that interview as much as I enjoyed interviewing her. Let's do one time. So tell me your name.
[00:34:22] Guest 4: Amber Johnson: I'm Amber Johnson.
[00:34:24] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Amber Johnson. All right. So what are you doing here at this Excel event?
[00:34:29] Guest 4: Amber Johnson: Learning a lot. Experiencing a lot. Interacting a lot. Networking. It's really like the full 360. That was just experience, being able to be in a room with all the other data islands. Really exhilarating.
[00:34:44] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right, so tell the audience about the shirt you were wearing yesterday.
[00:34:48] Guest 4: Amber Johnson: EBITDA earnings before depression, therapy, anxiety. I think that's.
[00:34:53] Host: Paul Barnhurst: What was the? Earnings before or was it interest? Therapy. Depression and anxiety. Nice. And how did you come up with that? Because we know that's not the real definition but it's not far off.
[00:35:06] Guest 4: Amber Johnson: Yeah. The real. How I ended up getting that sweatshirt was I was creating our financial models in my background in engineering. Definitely didn't prepare me for that. But I was preparing the financial models for our investors and many long nights, and my coworker kind of realized how depressed, anxious, and in need of therapy I was. So he found that sweatshirt and gifted it to me after we closed on our investment.
[00:35:29] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Nice. So you're an engineer by trade? Yes. And what type of industrial engineer? Yes. Industrial. All right. And so, how did you get into financial modeling?
[00:35:40] Guest 4: Amber Johnson: Well, traditionally, I really am not much into financial modeling. I'm definitely on the more Microsoft Excel world championships. Yeah, we're all outside of the world, I think, as I, you know, listen to Ian, Ian Schnoor talk about financial Modeling Institute. I do want to get into financial modeling. But yeah, I just love ticky tacky and Excel and most of my industrial engineering background from Western. They taught us how to do all of our forecasting and analysis in Excel, because they knew that that was going to be accessible and available at every company that we work for. So that's how it started in college. And then as I kind of learned the more intricate background of how to be able to bring in data sources and automate the reporting at Anheuser-Busch, I was able to, like, really speed that up. And then the love just grew from there.
[00:36:32] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So how do you like competing?
[00:36:34] Guest 4: Amber Johnson: I like competing against myself because I'm not here to beat anybody. But I like being able to see, like, last year I was in the 50th percentile and this year I was in the 33rd percentile. So it's nice to see that my skills are kind of improving and being able to do the, the, the competition and then be able to watch the pros do it afterwards. The live stream on YouTube, being able to be in the chat with the camaraderie and the, you know, excitement of a timed challenge. Super exciting. And then being able to see the things that they're using, like especially all the lambdas and Luts and dynamic arrays. Then I write them down and then I learn the tag. So it's really nice in that way.
[00:37:13] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right. So would you recommend this for someone if they want to get better at Excel.
[00:37:17] Guest 4: Amber Johnson: Oh ten out of ten. There's I mean even people that present data or work with data, even if it's not Excel specifically, there's so many other parts of this conference that are focused in a soft skills of working with data, working with people, with data that I think are immeasurably helpful. But yeah, I mean, even if you have like 1% interest in data, generally, I would come to it anyway because the people in the room are so hysterically fun, like just getting to talk to the stories of how people got where they are is worth the money by itself.
[00:37:49] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Favorite training so far? I would imagine it was probably the Excel jokes that were told. It was the way for last chance, right?
[00:37:56] Guest 4: Amber Johnson: The finance bro really killed it. That was really excellent. I'm going to say Josh Aharonoff, with his presentation on how to build the financial models was so sharp. His presentation style was so clear, and he was able to really effectively communicate a lot of information in a very short amount of time. And even building that financial model live is crazy wicked. So that was probably number one. But I attended last year, and so my close second is Ian Schnoor with the vetting the Excel sheets, because those basic skills are so effective and infinitely useful for myself, and also vetting other people's excels.
[00:38:34] Host: Paul Barnhurst: But so I'll put a plug in for Ian. Absolutely love him, FMI. That is the sponsor of this podcast, so take the AFM. I did it earlier this year. As I tell Ian, I had no choice. It was in the contract I had planned on taking it before. And so at least this time they didn't charge me because Covid happened and I never ended up taking it.
[00:38:55] Guest 4: Amber Johnson: Yeah. I definitely am interested in taking it because now that I see so many that are taking it and how widely recognized it is, I'm like, ooh, I love a good certification.
[00:39:03] Host: Paul Barnhurst: You got a good Excel joke for us to put you on the spot.
[00:39:08] Guest 4: Amber Johnson: I think the real Excel joke this week was my lack of being able to read the Excel questions on the exam.
[00:39:15] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Figure I might have to look at some FP&A nerd falling asleep during the competition.
[00:39:21] Guest 4: Amber Johnson: Oh my gosh. Yeah, I think the hardest part about Excel. You didn't ask. But the hardest part. Hardest part about Excel competitions is reading. And I'm so glad that even Andrew and I, and so many of the other competitors can also commiserated on the ability to read under pressure.
[00:39:36] Host: Paul Barnhurst: They have their moments. Yeah. All right, so who's gonna win tonight?
[00:39:41] Guest 4: Amber Johnson: I think. I hope that Liana Gersh comes out on top.
[00:39:47] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Nice, I like it.
[00:39:49] Guest 4: Amber Johnson: I hope. One for women. Let's do it.
[00:39:52] Host: Paul Barnhurst: All right, let's see what other fun question I'm trying to think of a good curveball. Worst model you've ever seen you've had to work on. Doesn't have to be a financial model. But worst thing you've seen in Excel, I'm sure you've seen some horror stories.
[00:40:05] Guest 4: Amber Johnson: It's not I'm gonna, I'm not going to call it the worst because they pay me a lot of money. But I definitely saw the most opportunity with forecasting models where in all of their sales data was on individual tabs of June sales, July sales, August sales.
[00:40:22] Host: Paul Barnhurst: I hate when I see that.
[00:40:23] Guest 4: Amber Johnson: Hundreds of tabs, and then each month they would copy 30 Excel sheets over into a new folder and then restart the process. And the poor demand planner was more of a data janitor than a data analyst. And so that's my part about being able to go in and do some consulting work.
[00:40:40] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And so what I'll say, folks, if you're doing that, learn Power Query.
[00:40:43] Guest 4: Amber Johnson: Yeah, absolutely. It's great
[00:40:44] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Because you do not put all your data on individual sheets, use tables, use Power Query. Save yourself a lot of time and headache in the long run. All right. And any last thoughts? Anything you like to add? What do you like to do in your personal time? Come on. I'm sure it's not just Excel. You have a life.
[00:41:04] Guest 4: Amber Johnson: I do have a life. I've been reading a lot lately. Any of my acotar girlies pop off? I've also been watching a lot of Netflix, and I've been trying to. I've got, like a monthly challenge series where I try something new every month. And so I recently, like, learned how to swim. I'm starting to learn Korean. I grew microgreens, so that's what I would suggest to anyone, is to really try one new thing a month, and you'll be so far ahead of where you were the month the year previous, and you'll have so many more new hobbies. So like, that's the thing is, like talking about hobbies and what I do in my free time, It's like I've collected 12 new things this year. So it's like, what don't I do in my free time?
[00:41:42] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Nice. Love it. Well, thank you for joining us, Amber. If anyone wants to get in touch with you, is LinkedIn the best way to do that?
[00:41:47] Guest 4: Amber Johnson: Linkedin is great. The best way to find me is Amber Johnson peachy with peachy profitability because Amber Johnson there's like.
[00:41:54] Host: Paul Barnhurst: What are you saying? It's harmony.
[00:41:56] Guest 4: Amber Johnson: Yeah that's crazy. It's like I'm Jane Doe. Yeah. My parents didn't really put any extra spice.
[00:42:01] Host: Paul Barnhurst: So it's kind of like the Joseph Smith or, you know, John Smith or all those type of.
[00:42:06] Guest 4: Amber Johnson: Yeah, they really do. Stopped at Amber. So they're like, you know what? Good enough.
[00:42:09] Host: Paul Barnhurst: We don't. Yeah. The first name is pretty common, last name at least is unique.
[00:42:13] Guest 4: Amber Johnson: But my social on Instagram, it is “Peachy Profitability” and then amber on Instagram as well. So either way you'll find me.
[00:42:19] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Perfect. Well thank you. Appreciate a few minutes. That's a wrap. What a great episode. I love doing two episodes this year on the Financial Modeling World Cup. If you want to listen to last year's episode, as I did two there as well. Interviewed many of the college students. Great interview with Oz and John Acampora that I think you'll love. So check those out if you want. I hope you join me in Vegas next year. Start competing in the Excel Esports and the Financial Modeling World Cup. It's a great way to level up your Excel skills. Have some fun! If you have any questions about it, let me know. Hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did, and we'll probably close with a little bit of music from the Financial Modeling World Cup. Giles epic song. And remember, Excel on the road if you want to see the road trip. With Oz and Giles.
[00:43:08] Host: Paul Barnhurst: And I did check out.
[00:43:11] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Giles Male's Excel on the Road. Thanks again for joining me.
[00:43:16] Music: The score. They've seen Andrew do it all before. They just know they're so sure. But Dim is here to even the score. It's the Excel World championship. Who is going to win? It's the Excel World Championship. Who's going in the spreadsheet bin?
[00:43:53] Host: Paul Barnhurst: Financial Modelers Corner was brought to you by the Financial Modeling Institute. This year I completed the Advanced Financial Modeler certification and it made me a better financial model. What are you waiting for? Visit FMI at www.fminstitute.com/podcast and use Code Podcast to save 15% when you enroll in one of the accreditations today.