Beyond the Classroom: Why Learning Excel is an Investment for Your Career
Show Notes
In this episode, we have another special treat for you which is part two of the Financial Modeling World Cup (FMWC) and the Microsoft Excel Collegiate Challenge (MECC). Paul attended modeling competitions in Arizona and Las Vegas watching competitors compete and talking to the commentators, spectators, and faculty, and we have brought you a few of those interviews.
Listen to this episode as:
Andrew Ngai shares how amazing it was to look out at the facility, the HyperX arena in Vegas, and realize that this was his hobby.
The founder of FMWC, Andrew Grigolyunovich talks about how it fulfilled a dream of his to talk about that.
Competitors share why learning Excel is so important for your career.
The students share some of their experiences, favorite Excel formulas, and why they're such big fans of Excel and financial modeling.
Quotes:
“Our slogan is “Learn, Train, Compete” for the Financial Modeling World Cup.”
Andrew Grigolyunovich
"It was the dream come true...that was exactly the moment that the thing that I was dreaming of, probably since back in 2016."
Andrew Grigolyunovich
"You're able to just help each other out. So, yeah, for me, my favorite part was the collaboration, just interacting."
Zach
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In today’s episode:
(00:45) Intro;
(01:34) A clip with Andrew Ngai;
(02:00) Interview with Andrew Grigolyunovich;
(11:46) Interview with Paul Wagner;
(17:12) Interview with Sarah;
(22:12 - 22:58) Validate your Financial Modeling Skills with FMI’s Accreditation Program (ad);
(22:59) Introduction to Students Clips Section;
(24:30) Interview with Tess Patton and Spencer Angell;
(39:57) Interview with Kameron;
(43:56) Interview with Daniel;
(46:37) Interview with Mikayla & Carson;
(52:20) Clip from the Team of Utah;
(58:43) Outro;
Full Show Transcript
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Welcome to Financial Modeler’s Corner, where we discuss the art and science of financial modeling with your host Paul Barnhurst. Financial Modeler’s Corner is sponsored by Financial Modeling Institute.
Welcome to Financial Modelers Corner. I am your host, Paul Barnhurst. This is a brand new podcast where we talk all about the art and science of financial modeling with distinguished financial modelers from around the globe. The Financial Modelers podcast is brought to you by Financial Modeling Institute. FMI offers the most respected accreditations in financial modeling.
This week we have another special episode for you. This is part two of the Financial Modeling World Cup and the Microsoft Excel Collegiate Challenge. This week we're going to start off with a brief clip by Andrew Ngai, just sharing how amazing it was to look out at the facility, the arena, the HyperX Arena in Vegas, and realize that this was his hobby, something that started as a hobby, him getting to compete and it being on ESPN. Then we'll be followed by Andrew Grigolyunovich, who is the founder of the Financial Modeling World Cup, and he talks about how it fulfilled a dream of his to talk about that. So that will be clip two. We'll go ahead and roll those two clips and then we'll go from there.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
What does it feel like to be in an arena like this?
Guest: Andrew Ngai
It's crazy. Yeah.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Did you ever think you'd be doing this?
Guest: Andrew Ngai
No, never.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
I bet.
Guest: Andrew Ngai
Yeah, I guess it's all just exploded so quickly in the last few years. Years ago, it was just like a little hobby, and now it's in Vegas.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Pretty excited, though?
Guest: Andrew Ngai
Yeah.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Good.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
I have here with me Andrew, he's coming to us from Latvia. He is the CEO of the Financial Modeling World Cup. He just hosted, last month in December, the event in Vegas. And first, we'd like to start, can you tell our audience a little bit about the event and how it went?
Guest: Andrew Grigolyunovich
Thank you, Paul. Thank you for the invitation. I would say that it really felt that the event went extremely well. People adored the arena. The energy was great there. So the viewers, the spectators were excited by the skills of the Excel pros who qualified through many, many rounds of qualification, so that we have those 16 top pros in the world, top Excel users in the world on stage. And that was an exciting arena, that was an exciting event, and also what I liked a lot was the friendship between the players. So, we had a technical glitch that the guy, the last year's champion, was eliminated in the semifinal while he had not, well, we didn't really have to do that to him, and then really, it was not him asking us like, “come on, guys, how can I get back?” It was the other players coming and saying, that we need to think of something today though. Andrew needs to continue his play, although he was a really strong competitor and eventually won the tournament, so the friendship of the players, that's just amazing. After that, after the event, I think there was a whole lot of, I wouldn't say even partying, but just hanging around and communicating with each other and joy, laugh, laughing on different things, so that was really amazing.
Next year, I really recommend everyone to come to Vegas because the event's going to be much bigger.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
That's exciting. I know there definitely was a lot of camaraderie and I think everybody handled themselves really well. I was impressed with the participants and I got a little clip of Andrew where, it was one of the first times kind of seeing the arena and he's just staring down at it and was kind of talking about almost kind of like how it was just amazing to Andrew not just that he won, but to see all this, to be here, I guess this was just kind of a hobby, and now here I am in Vegas. I'm like, did you ever imagine this? And he's like, no. And so I know he was kind of awestruck a little bit with just the size of the whole event. I think a lot of people were, so it was really exciting to kind of watch.
And what was it like for you personally to have something that you've worked so hard on featured in a gaming arena, right there in Vegas, being on ESPN, what was that like for you personally?
Guest: Andrew Grigolyunovich
That was the dream come true. Just like I mentioned in my opening keynote remark right there on the stage, that was exactly the moment that the thing that I was dreaming of, probably since back in 2016 when it was me as a player in a different tournament and thinking of like, it would be nice to be in the finals where we have an arena and viewers and all the fans and all this outside features, little by little, that came to a specific idea, specific arena, specific vision, and in a couple of years here we are.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
That's great. I appreciate that. I am curious, where did your love for Excel come from? What made you so passionate about Excel to do all this?
Guest: Andrew Grigolyunovich
I mean, my first job and my next couple of jobs were all connected with financial analysis and financial modeling, and Excel, that's basically the instrument for that. And back in the day, Excel was the first software I was opening on my computer, even before emails, even before Internet, even before anything. And that was the last one I was closing. So really, lots of hours working in Excel, getting more proficient, learning new tricks and so on. And then I learned about the Model off, about the tournament that took place since 2012 to 2019 and took part, made finals twice, so really felt myself equal to the other top pros in the world.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
That's cool. What was it like the first time you competed?
Guest: Andrew Grigolyunovich
Well, the first time that was like online, it was an annual tournament. So that was 2013. I've learned about that, well, solved some questions, solved some cases, solved maybe half of the questions, and was surprised to learn that I was within the top 100 in the results. That was kind of motivation for me to continue. The first time in the finals was in London in 2016. Again, as I mentioned, I really loved the event that the guys put out there. What I was lacking was the viewers. So basically the whole event was taking place in the conference room at Microsoft's office building. Definitely a different experience versus the arena in Vegas. But I really love the brotherhood, the friendship between the players, and this is something that keeps coming back to me these days.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Next question is, if somebody's listening to this episode, you know, most of the people who listen obviously have a strong interest in financial modeling, given the name of the podcast and our guests, if they're considering participating, what would you tell them are the benefits or why should they do it?
Guest: Andrew Grigolyunovich
Our slogan is the “Learn, Train, Compete” for the Financial Modeling World Cup. Besides all those rankings, and besides being able to become the best in the world, I would say that for any participant, even whoever comes just for fun or just for the sake of trying out, learning new things, that's a very important thing, because you're going to be given some challenges that you might not be meeting in your daily job, and then you will be given also the solution model. So you will also be shown how to better or like one of the possible correct ways to solve them. So it's a great and a fun way to learn financial modeling, to master Excel, to master new things. That was the way I was learning myself, because again, back in the Model off days, they didn't have solution models, by the way, but even by the problems they were posing, I was able to master some new things or new industries that were not really relevant to Latvia. We're a nordic country, we don't have too much sun here, for example, but I was modeling solar energy projects thanks to Model off back in the days. So that helped me to expand the knowledge and that's something that people could really get as one of the main outcomes, main benefits from the Financial Modeling World Cup. Learning in a fun way because it's really fun.
And if you're considering getting some exams, for example, financial modeling exams like AFM or CFM, then again, that's a great way to check how you're doing under pressure, under time pressure. That's one of the best ways to train for the exams. So that's the training aspect. And if you're very good, then you can really become even better by referring yourself or comparing yourself to the best ones in the world and to see what is that you're lacking, to be as good as they are.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Got it. That makes a lot of sense. So last question here before we let you go. If somebody wants to learn more about the Financial Modeling World Cup or how to participate, where should they go?
Guest: Andrew Grigolyunovich
Our website, fmworldcup.com and there he gets all the answers for any of his questions. Or just shoot me a message on LinkedIn, come find me on LinkedIn, at andrewgrig.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Great! Well, thank you for joining us for a few minutes and thank you for letting me be a part of the event in Vegas. I really enjoyed it.
Guest: Andrew Grigolyunovich
Thank you! Thank you so much, Paul, and thank you for the invitation. It was great having you in Vegas, by the way. I really, really enjoyed your way of listening to all the lectures and recording them. Really, it was a great one and I really love that we met in person there. Vegas, that's a great place for keeping in touch with your fellow modelers inside the industry, with Excel gurus and to get new friends, new acquaintances, new business partnerships and so on. So that's really a place to be.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Totally agree. I made a potential business partnership out of it and just great relationships, met people that I'd talked to but hadn't seen. So it was a great, just from a networking standpoint, it was worth the trip.
Guest: Andrew Grigolyunovich
And again this year we're upgrading the format so that we are really bringing in more people. We're going to put the format so that more people will feel the benefit of coming there. So probably more of our players will not be postponing the decision until the very final day. But we're going to encourage everyone to come to Vegas, sign up, and take part, and it's really going to be an even much bigger networking opportunity here this time.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Great. Thank you for sharing that! That's exciting. Thanks for your time.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
We just listened to two great clips from Andrew Ngai and Andrew Grigolyunovich where he shares how he fulfilled his dream. I think for both of them it was a dream seeing the competition in Vegas at the HyperX Arena.
Next, we're going to go back to the Microsoft Excel Collegiate Challenge and interview a couple more faculty who share why they had their students participate, why they're such big fans of Excel, why they teach it at their university.
So we're going to hear Paul Wagner. He was a professor at NAU University and had a student compete. And then we're going to have Sarah from the University of Central Florida. So those will be our next two guests. Really excited for you to get to hear them talk about their passion of Excel, how their students learned, and how it benefited them.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
So I'm here with Paul Wagner. Paul, nice to meet you.
Guest: Paul Wagner
Nice to meet you, Paul.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
So what brought you here to the Microsoft Excel Collegiate Championship?
Guest: Paul Wagner
I am a faculty member in the information systems area at Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff, Arizona, and we were invited to bring some students down to try to compete in the challenge.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
How did the students react when they first heard about it, were they pretty excited about it? Was it easy to get students to sign up, or what was that like?
Guest: Paul Wagner
They were, we were actually sort of late invitees. Even at that late date, we had several students jump at the opportunity. We had a team of three lined up to come down. One of them got Covid at the last minute, and so now we're a small but hopefully mighty team of two.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Not much you can do when that happens. Covid strikes, right?
Guest: Paul Wagner
Exactly.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
So what has the experience been like for the students practicing? How have you seen maybe their skills improve, or how has that helped them kind of prepare for the workplace?
Guest: Paul Wagner
Right! As I said, we were sort of late to the game, so we did the practice not at the same time that everybody else was doing it, but they did work through some of those. Most of the challenges are sort of financial-based. I'm coming from an information systems students, and so some of the concepts were a little bit new to them. Some of the angles in Excel are a little bit different coming from an IS point of view as opposed to a finance point of view. And so it's been a real learning experience for them so far, and they know that this is going to be a challenge a little bit outside their normal comfort zone, but they're really looking forward to the challenge.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Great. And is this something you plan on, bringing the students again to next year?
Guest: Paul Wagner
Absolutely, yes. And so we're hoping that we can find students who are interested for next year and use this really as a learning experience this year so that our students can come back and maybe it'll be the same students trying again next year, or maybe these students can talk it up for students who are also interested for next year.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Sure, that makes sense. And so another question for you, what do you think has allowed Excel to stay so relevant all these years? It's basically 40 years old now, just about, and been around forever, but yet it's still the dominant tool if someone needs to do ad hoc analysis, if someone wants to do modeling, vast majority turn to Excel. Why do you think it's become so ubiquitous and been able to stay so long?
Guest: Paul Wagner
I think it is because of what I tell my students all the time, which is Excel exists to make your life easier, right? If you want to create a batch of commands, for instance, if you're coming from the IS area, I might need to run a similar command a bunch of different times, and instead of trying to script it out some other way, I can pop it into Excel and have instantly 1000 commands that I need to run. And Excel is powerful enough and yet flexible enough that it applies to almost any career you go into. It really can make your life easier. And that's what I preach to my students. One of my favorite classes that I teach is a class for non-information systems, students who are in very non-technical careers. And so part of my job is to convince them Excel is going to make your life easier. If you get good at Excel, Excel is going to make you better at your job. And so that's one of my favorite classes to teach, and just seeing sort of eyes open, oh, you can do that in Excel.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
I know exactly what you're talking about. I teach Excel and one of the things I teach often is Dynamic arrays and they just light up. You show them Unique. It's like, how did you used to do it? I went over here, click, copied the list over, remove duplicates, and then when something new was added, I did it again. You could just write, it's dynamic, it automatically resizes, put it in a table, the light bulb goes on, it's like, oh, I could use this here. It's great to see. I'm totally with you on that.
So last question we have here, before we let you go, what's your favorite thing about Excel? What do you like best? Do you have a favorite function or feature?
Guest: Paul Wagner
Boy, there's so many.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
That's a hard question. Yeah.
Guest: Paul Wagner
Let me start with my favorite thing about Excel.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Okay, that will work too.
Guest: Paul Wagner
And my favorite thing about Excel is just its power at, and its speed at calculating a huge number of formulas, functions, whatever, in a tiny fraction, a tiny amount of time. An example that I give my students is that in the gradebook for one of my classes, there are around 100 gradebook columns, around 300 students. So total in this worksheet, there's about 30,000 formulas. And as we know, anytime any one value updates in Excel, Excel recalculates all 30,000 formulas. And so to show students how that works just in the blink of an eye, when any one thing changes is pretty fun. And so that's really what I enjoy about Excel.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Great. And I love that, and appreciate your time today, Paul, and just joining me for a few minutes and wish your students good luck.
Guest: Paul Wagner
Thank you so much. I appreciate it, Paul.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
So, Sarah, thank you for joining me. I appreciate you taking a few minutes out of your day.
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
Absolutely.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
So what brought you here to the Microsoft Excel collegiate championship?
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
So David and our dean at the University of Central Florida, Paul Jarley, did a podcast together where he learned about this competition and wanted to get UCF involved. So I coordinate the certification exams for Excel for the university. We have about 2000 students who graduate each semester. And he wanted to have all the students, all 2000 per year, have the opportunity to gain more Excel skills because his advisory board is telling him that the companies hiring graduates want firmer skills with Excel.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Sure.
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
So when he heard about this opportunity, he saw it as another way to enhance some of those skills and get us more involved. So he asked me to bring a team out, and here we are.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Great. So how many students did you bring out?
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
We brought three.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Three. And are they doing the team or the individual competition?
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
They're doing the team.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
So the three of them are working together and they're on case number two right now.
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
They are right now.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Have you had a chance to talk to them at all?
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
Very briefly in between the two?
Host: Paul Barnhurst
They're probably a little stressed.
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
A little bit.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Is this the first year you've done this then this?
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
It is.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Do you plan on coming again?
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
Definitely.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Good. And how have the students liked the experience overall? I know you did dinner last night and they've got to meet other students. What have they said so far?
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
They're pretty excited about having the opportunity to travel, first of all.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Sure, Florida air to Arizona is a big trip.
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
It is. But they're excited to meet other people, meet some of the sponsors, and they're excited to have an opportunity to enhance their skills for employers as they're looking for jobs after graduation, they see the way to stand out.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
So how have you seen the students grow, preparing for this, like, have you seen a big change in their Excel skills or kind of what's been your experience watching them?
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
We had a very short turnaround here, so we actually got involved in September. I know a lot of other colleges and universities have started out in April, so we only had a few months to prepare. But I was very impressed with their dedication in practicing. I was like, if you can devote eight to 10 hours here and there to do some of these practice rounds, that'd be great. But I mean, a couple of them really dug in and spent a lot of time practicing.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
It's amazing. If you enjoy Excel, you can spend a lot of time in it. I know I've got myself deep a few times inall of those rabbit holes. So what is it that you love about Excel?
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
I love that you can use the functions to solve so many different issues. In the class that I teach, we use a lot of linear nonlinear programming, so we use Solver, we use some of the data analytics toolpack. And just seeing how you can get to the same answer from multiple different ways, it's kind of like solving a puzzle to figure out what's going to work best and work fastest and be the most efficient.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Yeah, you can put the outside together first. You can start the bottom and work up, work in. Yeah, Excel, I always say, there's usually at least five ways to solve something.
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
Exactly.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Sometimes more. It's like people are like, well, what lookup function do you use? Which one meets your needs? When did you learn? Did you learn in the 90s? Did you learn yesterday?
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
Exactly.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Because one of the students that I had, was like, oh, my favorite is Xlookup. I rarely get that answer because I'm usually talking to people that have been working in Excel for 2030 years. And so it's just interesting to see how different it is, how excited they were.
And so next question. What's your favorite function or feature? Do you have a favorite specific thing about Excel if you had to pick one? I know, it's like picking kids.
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
Solver, I love solver.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
You're a big Solver.
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
I am.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
I've got that one. Before, I remember I had a guy on the podcast where he's like, I ran around the office telling everybody, look Solver. And they're looking at him like, okay…
So what is it about Solver you like?
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
I like using Solver and Solver table because that way we can set up, I do a lot of case-based problems. So you can set up the case, figure out what constraints are there, what the objective is, and try to maximize or minimize if they're trying to figure out profit or minimize cost, whatever it might be, and it magically spits out the answer. But then using the Solver table, we can run multiple different scenarios in a matter of seconds, to say, if we want to change one of the constraints by 2, 4, 10, 20, whatever it might be, and get those answers immediately for them.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
And so, I'll ask, if someone's listening to this and they're not familiar with Solver or Solver table do you have a great resource for them to go to or a way to learn that you would recommend?
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
Solver.com is actually where I send students if they're having issues directly, but YouTube has tons of different tutorials and whatnot.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, you can pretty much find it all out there.
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
For my course, I have my own videos that I've created.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Sure. Well, that's great. So is that an online course you teach or is it..?
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
It's a hybrid course.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Hybrid.
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
So at UCF we have these real courses, relevant, engaged, active learning. And since we're such a large college, these are the core classes. So everyone, every major has to take these courses. We have an enrollment cast of 1200 per semester. So in order to make that functional, we have to do the hybrid method where they do a lot of learning through canvas. The LMS.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Sure.
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
And then they come in for five or six of these active learning labs where they sit at tables together in groups of six or seven and we give them different problems to work on with myself and the TA circulating and helping them with questions and whatnot.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Well, I want to thank you for taking a few minutes to chat with me and I wish your students the best of luck. I hope they have a memorable experience and do as best they can.
Guest: Sarah (UCF)
Thank you very much.
Commercial break:
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Host: Paul Barnhurst
This next part of the interview is going to be the students. So we've heard from the faculty, we've heard from the founder. Now we're going to hear from a number of different students. This section I'm really excited about.
We're going to start with two U of A students, Tess and Spencer. They came in first in the team competition. They're going to share some of their experiences, favorite Excel formulas.
They'll be followed by Kameron. This is a really fun clip, the audio may not be great forward in that, as we are right in the Arena as I'm talking to him, and he was from the University of Florida. They competed, and I believe they came in fourth in the team competition. May have been third, but they competed in the finals, yeah, they came in third.
And then we have Daniel, a Northern Arizona student who competed, and then Mikayla and Carson, two U of A students who just talk a little bit about why they were helping out with the contest, why they're such big fans of Excel and financial modeling.
And then we'll have the Utah Valley university three students join us. They came in fourth place, and what's interesting is they tied for third, had the exact same score as the third place, and they had to go to the rules to figure out how they break a tie. So they did great. We're going to hear from three students there, and that will conclude the student section.
I'll come back and we'll have a brief conclusion, but first, we'll go ahead and roll those clips. You'll get to hear from U of A, Kameron from the University of Florida, Daniel from NAU, Mikayla and Carson from U of A, and then the Utah Valley University team that competed today.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Today I'm here with Tess and Spencer. Tess and Spencer, just two weeks ago, competed at the Microsoft Excel Collegiate Championship, in the team competition for the University of Arizona. I’m just really excited to chat with them here for a few minutes.
So, Tess, welcome to the show.
Guest: Tess (U of A student)
Thank you. Glad to be here.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Thanks. Spencer, welcome.
Guest: Spencer (U of A student)
Thank you.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
So why don't we start with, we'll start with you, Tess. Could you maybe just tell us a little bit about yourself, what you're studying at school, how you ended up at the U of A?
Guest: Tess (U of A student)
Yeah, sure. So I'm originally from the Bay area of California, but I'm here at the University of Arizona studying finance. I'm a sophomore right now. I got involved with the MECC through the financial modeling club and a Wall Street prep program we have here at U of A. I met David Brown, one of the people that runs the competition, and he encouraged me to go out for the team, do the preliminary rounds, and somehow I made it all the way and was lucky enough to compete a couple of weeks ago.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Great. Thanks for sharing that, Tess. And how about you, Spencer?
Guest: Spencer (U of A student)
My name's Spencer Angell. I'm originally from Salina, Kansas, which is a small grain milling town in north central Kansas, and came to the U of A because of certain finance programs that are available. I'm currently a junior studying finance and joined the Wall Street Scholars program to hopefully break into investment banking, and there I met our wonderful director named Prarthana Magon, who competed as an individual competitor in the MECC just two weeks ago, same event, and she encouraged me to join our financial modeling club. Was connected to David Brown through that and I guess it's history since then. Love financial modeling and was really happy to compete.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
So what is it you love about financial modeling, Spencer? What is it that makes you like to do it?
Guest: Spencer (U of A student)
I think it is the problem-solving aspect. I enjoy problem-solving in, I guess, any field and being able to build a skill, like a tangible skill like Excel while also doing problem-solving that sort of activates my neurons and lets me have a good time. It's a great combination of that, you know professional development and fun through problem-solving.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Great. I love that. And you mentioned you want to do investment banking when you're done. Is that the current plan?
Guest: Spencer (U of A student)
Yes, that is the current plan.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Great. And how about yourself, Tess? What got you involved in it?
Guest: Tess (U of A student)
Same thing as Spencer. I'm a part of the Wall Street Scholars program, and then through that, I joined the financial modeling club, met Prarthana and David Brown, and got encouraged to go out for the competition.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Great. And what do you hope to do after school? Do you want to do investment banking as well?
Guest: Tess (U of A student)
Yes, that is the current plan. Spencer's a year ahead of me, so he's already gone through recruiting, but I'm planning to start recruiting in the spring, hopefully get a job on Wall Street.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Great. And I know that's a very common path for finance students. I considered investment banking, went the corporate finance route, but totally know a lot of students like to do that and it's a great place to get some good experience.
So two weeks ago, you guys won the competition for the team competition. Congratulations on that!
Why don't we start with Spencer here? Maybe just talk a little bit of what the experience was, know, competing against other teams and kind of winning. Just share a little bit of your experience of the actual event.
Guest: Spencer (U of A student)
It was really fun, you know, Tess and then Ashley, who's unfortunately not able to be here, she's in Shanghai right now.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
I'd say I feel for her, but actually it sounds fun, so…
Guest: Spencer (U of A student)
Sounds really fun, yeah! We had been preparing several weeks in advance, kind of knew where each other's strengths lie. So in those first two rounds, right, you get a Esports case and then a more financial oriented case. So we had sort of figured out that Ashley and Tess take the Esports cases, I take the financial modeling one, and we were able to see great success in the first couple of rounds. It was really fun. Got to listen to some great speakers in between the first rounds and the final rounds, which was super interesting, and able to meet a lot of great people with sort of shared interests in financial modeling. And then, yeah, ended up getting to the finals, competed there and everything went as planned, I guess, because we came out on top.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
So I'm curious, I'm going to ask a question here. You mentioned there were some great speakers, I know, and just so our audience knows, the speakers they had in between the sessions, they had a guy by the name of Craig Hatmaker. I had him on my podcast earlier this year and we talked about Dynamic arrays and Lambdas. So I know he talked about 5G. And just so our audience knows, 5G is something he's working on to really take Dynamic arrays and build components that make modeling easier. Big examples are corkscrews, right? If you're doing a depreciation and it's a repeat schedule, you can't really do that with a Dynamic array. That's one of the things that, but you can do it if you know how to build a Lambda. And so what was your take on that, Spencer, had you seen anything like that before?
Guest: Spencer (U of A student)
I had not. I've seen Professor Brown, David Brown do a lot of crazy stuff, even with Lambdas, but that 5G, throwing in the depreciation schedule with all different models of depreciation, just being able to in 20 seconds have a Dynamic array that can switch between all of that it's crazy and I don't know how to do it, but I want to learn.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Yeah, it's pretty cool. And his goal with it is really to make it so you don't have to know how the background works. You have to know to enter the right assumptions and validate that the answer is right, but you don't actually have to know the coding, which is nice for a lot of people because I'd say most people don't want to code. Some do. But most finance people aren't coders by nature, unless you count Excel functions as coding, which some people do.
What was your take of the event, Tess, your kind of thoughts and how you saw it?
Guest: Tess (U of A student)
Definitely same experience. I really enjoyed the first rounds because we got to interact a little bit more with the other teams. I think there were eight teams in this morning rounds. We were able to talk in between because there were two preliminaries. We got to talk about the rounds, see where other people struggled and where we struggled and compare that and then guest speakers were phenomenal, as you said, I'm really looking forward to the 5G stuff. I think that could save a ton of time going into the real world, so I hope to be able to learn it, utilize it in my day-to-day life.
And then the finals, went really well in the end, but it was definitely a challenging case and we worked through it together, but it was not easy.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Yeah, I bet. And I'm going to ask you a little bit about what the case was on, but I'll encourage anyone who's listening to this if they haven't listened, we did a whole episode earlier about 5G and Dynamic arrays. I think it was episode, I think it's number 7 of Financial Modeler’s Corner. So if either of you haven't listened, really encourage you to get to listen to it because there's some really good conversations from some world-class modelers and not just 5G, but Dynamic arrays in general and how they will change modeling over time. Anyone who's used them, think how much easier it is to audit if you have an entire Dynamic model you don't have to worry about did they change the formula in column AB or whatever, right, cause it's spilling all the way across.
So there's just some really nice benefits from auditing and other standpoints and the number of functions you have to check, the number of functions you have to use. It's just getting to the point where we have everything we need to really build it that way. There's still some really tricky parts to doing it all Dynamic.
So what was the case about Tess in the finals? Can you tell our audience a little bit about the case?
Guest: Tess (U of A student)
Yeah. So the theme of the case was take me out to the ball game and there were three different sections, each had an easy, medium and hard level. I believe the first one that Spencer was working on was strike zones and different batters, and then Ashley, I'm not 100% sure she's not here, but it was more like physics, ball speed, pitching, stuff like that.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Yes, I remember some of that, seeing some physics stuff as students were working on it.
Guest: Tess (U of A student)
And then I did outs and strikeouts and first base, second base, all of those different things, calculating where we got different innings and how many points teams have scored and putting that all together. The first round or the first level was really quick. Went through it in a couple of minutes and then the second one completely stumped me. I talked to some of the other teams, same exact experience. I think I just stared at it for a couple of minutes, no idea what to do. But again, it worked out in my favor still, so no complaints.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
You're not alone with having that experience, I'll tell both of you. So the first time I ever did it, they streamed it live on YouTube. I've never even practiced a case. I won't go into all the details about how it happened, but they invited me to do it and I got on there and the case, I don't know, was out of 1000 points or whatever. And I got a bonus question answered really quick. So I was in second place for about a minute, then I went to fourth place and there were only four people and stayed there the next 30 minutes and watched everybody like triple quadruple my score. I was like 70 and think the rest of them were 400 and above.
So I can relate to getting stumped. I got stumped on the very easy, I just totally froze up. So I appreciate anyone who competes. I did a little better last week in Vegas, so I can totally relate to that one.
So next question I want to ask you here is if somebody is going to school for financial modeling or wants to do financial modeling, why do you think competing in a contest like this would be good for them? I mean, what would be your advice if they're kind of like, “should I do it? I don't know. That seems like a nerd thing, right?”
Guest: Tess (U of A student)
It definitely is, but I would encourage anyone to do it.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
But why should they do it, Tess?
Guest: Tess (U of A student)
I think it makes it fun. Learning Excel as it is, data analysis, all of that, it can be a little bit tedious, but putting yourself in a competitive atmosphere, doing, I guess, kind of games, Esports, it makes it a lot more fun and just encourages you to learn different functions that you may never use before. And then after the competitions, I always find myself in my classes being like, oh, I can make this so much faster because I know all these different functions and know all the shortcuts. And so I would encourage absolutely anyone. I've talked a few of my friends into trying out for it, I think they did some of the preliminary rounds and they were definitely stumped but learned a lot from it. So absolutely would encourage anyone to do it.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
And how about you, Spencer?
Guest: Spencer (U of A student)
I would definitely echo sort of the same thing Tess said. Don't tell Professor Brown, but he teaches a sort of prerequisite for all finance students that's like somewhat basic financial modeling, and through doing the Esports and things like that, I don't think I spent more than ten minutes on any of the assignments in that entire class. So it's definitely a way to, if you like problem-solving like me, it's definitely a way to build those super functional skills, keyboard shortcuts, critical thinking in an Excel setting, all while having a good time.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
I love that last part, while having a good time, because we all want to have fun while we learn. Those are the best learning experiences.
So I just have two more questions for you guys and then I'll let you go. I know you probably want to enjoy your holiday break as you've finished up finals and have some fun over the holidays. So first question I'm going to ask, and we'll start with you on this one, Spencer, what's your favorite feature or function in Excel?
Guest: Spencer (U of A student)
I think Xlookup is the very common answer and for good reason. But one thing that I sort of was working a lot on in preparation of the event closely with Prarthana, who we mentioned earlier, was building out data tables that could automatically update and just sort of really consolidate the data analysis process and make solving those cases a lot easier. I think it's a super cool, I don't want to call it a trick, but approach to these problems. So I would definitely say, and I don't even know if it's really the right name for it, but like data tabling, those different case questions.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Yeah, I saw a lot of people using data tables. I haven't used them much. I'm familiar with them, but…
Tess, what's yours?
Guest: Tess (U of A student)
I think the function that I use the most is the IF function or nested IFs, because back in high school I used to do a lot of coding and it reminds me of all the loops and things like that, and it's a way to apply that within Excel and really be able to analyze a lot of data at once and how different things affect each other. So used it a ton in the finals and in the preliminary rounds. Definitely would say it's my favorite.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
And so I'm curious, what kind of coding did you do in high school?
Guest: Tess (U of A student)
Python and Matlab. I used to be planning to study engineering, so I was preparing for that, but it ended up helping me in this instead, which is kind of a blessing in disguise.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Well, you know, next year you'll be able to use Python in Excel.
Guest: Tess (U of A student)
Really? Is that under VBA?
Host: Paul Barnhurst
No. So what they've added, it's in beta right now, it will be coming out. Right in the function window you could type equals PY and that means open up Python. It has, I think, eleven libraries, some functions they worked with the company and so there's a lot of panda and others in there, particularly around a little bit of cleaning data, but most of it's around analyzing and visualizing data is most of what they've brought in. And so that will be available here. I don't know exactly when, but probably in the next few months. It's in the beta test environment.
Guest: Tess (U of A student)
That's really cool. I'll definitely have to check that out when it comes out.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
So that might be a fun way for you to kind of stand out in the competition, is using some Python in certain situations.
Guest: Tess (U of A student)
Definitely.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
We were talking a lot about that in Vegas, how that would change the competition. When you have somebody that's really good in Pythoon, you know throwing that in there, we.
Guest: Tess (U of A student)
We could have some new players coming in with that.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
I would agree. So, as we wrap up here, gonna ask a question. Just what's a hobby you have outside of school, outside of scale that you like to do?
Tess?
Guest: Tess (U of A student)
I like to go hiking. We're here in Tucson, Arizona, and I think there's an absolute massive amount of different options. There's the mountains, there's different hiking trails, the Saguaro national forest, which is really cool. So it's definitely a good way to get away from campus, kind of shut my mind off and definitely get away from the computer.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Yeah, no, hiking is a great one. I love hiking. I'm in Salt Lake City, so I know what you mean by the mountains. And I went to school in Arizona, not U of A, I did go to ASU, so don't hate me, but I went there for grad school. I know you're both giving me that look.
And how about yourself, Spencer?
Guest: Spencer (U of A student)
I would say two main things. I really enjoy reading classics, and I also really enjoy playing chess. You know, there is lots of great nature and hiking around here, but I guess I just stay inside and read, play against myself on the chessboard.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
As long as you enjoy it, that's what matters, but I will encourage you, get out and go on a hike. I bet Tess would take you on one.
Guest: Tess (U of A student)
Oh, yeah.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
So there, you know, go do a good hike. I love to get out and hike myself, but I also enjoy reading.
So thank you both for joining me. And again, congratulations on winning the team event. I know that's quite an accomplishment. I think there was a small prize that came with that, I know you got some trophies and things, so good luck with finding those internships and the right job and finishing school, and thanks for carving out a few minutes for me.
Guest: Tess (U of A student)
Of course. Thank you so much for having us.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
All right, so I'm here live with Kameron, as the individual event is going on. So, Kameron, I know you competed in the team competition. How's the experience been?
Guest: Kameron (University of Florida student)
I've enjoyed every moment of it, from training during Thanksgiving break to being here today.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Cool. And so what university are you from?
Guest: Kameron (University of Florida student)
Yes, I'm from University of Florida. I'm a third year. I'm an Economics major, minor in business administration.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Cool. And so how did the competition go for you guys? How did you feel you did as a team?
Guest: Kameron (University of Florida student)
As a team, we collectively pulled together our weight on each of the main cases within this finalist round. It was just broken down to each of us tackling different problems, solving them. I loved every moment.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Good. And what was the problem? What was the case you were working on?
Guest: Kameron (University of Florida student)
We were talking about baseball and specifically if a batter was going on the left side or right side. And then one of the things I was figuring out was the percentage of where the ball would land based off of an extended formula.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Okay, so what kind of formulas did you use?
Guest: Kameron (University of Florida student)
So I worked with equals mid and I was extracting different, like B4 or C10. I was taking those numbers and they were all scattered together. I was separating all of them individually and then I was referencing them where they fell in this array to then give me a value. And then I took those final values in a long equation and then got the answer.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Yeah, no, I know you're talking about arrays and trying to separate it and get it all to come back together, and at the end, you're like, I hope I got that answer right.
Guest: Kameron (University of Florida student)
Exactly.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Well, it's cool. So tell me, what do you hope to do when you're done with school?
Guest: Kameron (University of Florida student)
I hope to go into investment banking. I have an internship lined up doing M&A. But after that I hope to go get an MBA. And that's looking out five years from now.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
And what is it you love about Excel? Why are you such a big Excel fan?
Guest: Kameron (University of Florida student)
Excel is a platform where you can solve nearly any financial modeling, any type of modeling question. With all the new updates from Lambda and then pulling Python, it's an amazing base to visually represent charts and numbers.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Yep. No, I agree. I love the Python, I love that they just came out with the Group by and the Pivot by and Beta, and it's amazing how quick it's moving now, I can't keep up anymore, so I get it.
So what's your favorite function or feature? Favorite thing about Excel if you had to pick one?
Guest: Kameron (University of Florida student)
Absolutely. Besides the Xlookups that are really common I love the Lambda. I've really gotten into it and figuring out all the processes that I can connect from GitHub, downloading different files from others that have released and tested their own formulas, to implementing that into DCFs and LBO models.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Cool. So yeah, a lot of DCF and LFOs, anything you've learned, any kind of tips, have you started to build those models that you can offer to others?
Guest: Kameron (University of Florida student)
I would say continue to practice. Our team made a lot of mistakes, and do it together. I know Chat GPT came in handy while just beginning to train. One of the things that we did with Chat GPT was we asked it to pull from the entire Internet every Excel possibility of resources out there and so we created a huge group doc. and that helped us.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
That's cool. Yeah, it's amazing what you can do with Chat GPT now. So going to totally change subjects on you. What's a hobby or passion you have outside of school, outside of Excel that you like to do?
Guest: Kameron (University of Florida student)
Absolutely. I just got certified in scuba diving and last week I led a team of nine divers in cave diving and I love that. So I'm from the University of Florida, so the coast is right there.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Yeah, no, great. Well, thank you for your time. I appreciate it and you enjoy the rest of your time Kameron.
Guest: Kameron (University of Florida student)
Thank you for having me on.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
All right, thanks.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
I have here with me Daniel, who competed today in the Microsoft Excel Collegiate Challenge. Daniel, welcome to the show.
Guest: Daniel (NAU student)
Thank you.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
So tell me, how has your experience been so far? What's it been like for you?
Guest: Daniel (NAU student)
So far it's been very good. They've fed us well. But that aside, the challenge actually wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. The preparatory assignments were much more challenging, the actual two challenges themselves. Right now I'm taking information systems management at Northern Arizona University, and the Excel assignments are actually pretty similar to what I've been learning in class. So it actually wasn't too bad. I feel I've had more time, probably could have been able to do more, but this is my first time doing it so now I kind of know how it all goes down.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Do you think you'll do it again next year?
Guest: Daniel (NAU student)
I think so, if I'm given the opportunity.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Cool. So what was probably the most challenging part of all of it? Was there any part that was kind of really hard? Was it just the limited time or what was the biggest challenge for you?
Guest: Daniel (NAU student)
I think it's just all at once you're given all the information, I think kind of just sifting through the information, seeing what actually needs to be done because there's kind of a lot to read. So kind of just narrowing that down and not overcomplicating it, because some of the stuff wasn't actually that hard. It was just a lot of, it's easy to overcomplicate it.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Were there any complex formulas you used during it or anything?
Guest: Daniel (NAU student)
Off the top of my head, I split up with my teammates. The ones I did were usually more just Sum functions and Count functions.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Sure, pretty straightforward.
Guest: Daniel (NAU student)
Pretty straightforward. I think that was good, too. I did it with a team, so between my teammates, we were able to split it up.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
So here's a question we like to ask people. What's your favorite thing about Excel? What do you like about Excel? Do you have a favorite formula, or function or feature?
Guest: Daniel (NAU student)
I think with Excel, I don't have a specific favorite thing. I think with just me, just in general I like Excel. If I want to calculate or sum something up, create a formula for future use, I can use Excel. It saves me that time. Now I'm not wasting my time each time trying to calculate something that Excel could do.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Perfect. And what do you like to do outside of Excel in school? Do you have any kind of passions or hobbies, things you like to do?
Guest: Daniel (NAU student)
I have four birds.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Cool. What kind of birds?
Guest: Daniel ( NAU student)
Two parakeets and two cockatiels. I love my birds, and I like walking around. Outside of like, hiking.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
You're in a great place for that. Northern Arizona, Flagstaff. You got a lot of great hiking up.
Guest: Daniel ( NAU student)
Definitely. So, yes, I think that helped me realize that I spend time indoors too much.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Cool. Well, thank you for carving out a few minutes for us. I appreciate it, Daniel, and congratulations on doing the competition. That's a big step just to come and compete. I’m glad you've had a good experience, I hope you enjoy watching the finals.
Guest: Daniel ( NAU student)
Thank you very much.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Well, I have here with me, Carson and Mikayla. Thank you for joining me. Why don't we start with, just tell me just who you are and why you're here.
Guest: Carson (U of A student)
Okay. I'm Carson Guyverson. I'm a freshman here at the University of Arizona. I plan to double major in finance and MIS. Right now I'm just pre-business, lucky enough to be pretty involved here on campus with some clubs, with the financial modeling club, which we have here, which is a fantastic club that teaches undergrad students how to properly model and excel 1 hour a week, and we're both part of Wall Street scholars where we plan to pursue our ambitions in high finance. So it's just a great thing we're involved in.
Guest: Mikayla Pappas (U of A student)
And I'm Mikayla Pappas. I'm currently a finance major with a minor in Spanish. Like he said, pretty involved on campus Investments Club and Financial Modeling Club how he explained, as well as Wall Street Scholars, which is a professional development program to help students land internships on Wall Street, and I'm currently very passionate about investment banking.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
And what is it about investment banking that you're passionate about?
Guest: Mikayla Pappas (U of A student)
Yeah, there's actually a lot of things. To begin with, the unmatched mentorship. I've received mentorship already, and I know that I will continue to receive it. I'm very grateful for that. I love being on a team full of like-minded and driven individuals as myself. And I also truly like the steep learning curve. I truly value continuous learning, and I think that that's something that is very important in investment banking.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
I would agree. It's definitely important to learn. I didn't go the investment banking route. I went into corporate finance, actually, as an undergrad I did general business, did procurement for four years, went back to grad school, did an MBA, and then worked in financial planning analysis at FP&A. And so for me, modeling was not something I ever learned in school, haven’t really learned how to model. It took me a long time to figure out how to design, so I'm so glad they have a modeling class because one of the biggest problems with modeling, a guy by the name of Ian Schnoor, who runs the Financial Modeling Institute, he said the number one problem far and away is design. Like, it almost always comes back to poor design when there's a problem with the model. And some of the best advice I’ve been given. So it took me a long time to realize that I built some, I call them, some Frankenstein, some Franken models. So I'm really glad they're teaching you that.
So, Carson, you want to go to Wall Street as well? Investment banking, is that what you want to do?
Guest: Carson (U of A student)
As of now, yeah.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
I get it, you're only a freshman. You got a while to figure.
Guest: Carson (U of A student)
Yes, for sure.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
So what brought you to the competition? And why don't we start with you, Mikayla, what brought you here today?
Guest: Mikayla Pappas (U of A student)
Yeah, definitely. So I'm actually in David Brown's finance 399 class, which focuses on those models. And he always brings a very unique approach to solving some of those questions. And I'm still at a very beginner level, definitely not equipped to perform at this level. But I definitely want to volunteer, help out and support my peers, and just meet new people.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Great. I love it. And now, how about yourself, Carson?
Guest: Carson (U of A student)
Yeah. So just to add on all what she said is totally true. I'm not actually in David Brown's class yet. I'm taking it this coming spring. Really, really excited to learn from him as such skilled as he is. But mainly I just wanted to come support some of the team members at the University of Arizona. They're really fantastic people, really hardworking, and they happen to be in our Wall Street program and they mentor us and really help us out. So it's more like giving back a lot of it just to come say hi, help out and learn and meet some really fantastic minds.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
I love that. That's great. So just have two more questions here for you and we'll start with you, Carson. Do you have a favorite formula or feature about Excel? What's your favorite thing in Excel?
Guest: Carson (U of A student)
I would say my favorite feature in Excel, I don't know, I think it's so basic, I just love the way sheets work in Excel and that I can have a workbook with multiple sheets and there’s a playground sandbox for all my ideas all in one area, but still have it be organized as much as it can. Like being new to Excel, sometimes I think it's kind of like jumbled and there's so much going on at once. But they give you the tools to organize and make things as streamlined as you possibly can get them and I love that capability.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Great.
Guest: Mikayla Pappas (U of A student)
Going to be a very basic answer, but Xlookup, it's just so versatile. You can nest functions with it. I'm pretty beginner, so it's one that I use a lot.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
I'm glad you said Xlookup. So as somebody who started with Vlookup, then index match, then Xlookup, when I interview people, especially who've been in their career a long time, many will say Vlookup, sure. And I always think they should switch to Xlookup. I mean, Vlookup is good and you can use any of the three. It doesn't matter. But I've always enjoyed Xlookup because it solves some of the challenges of the earlier versions in my mind, so I appreciate that answer.
Last question. What's something you're passionate about or you enjoy doing outside of school?
Guest: Carson (U of A student)
Okay, I can go first on this one, I guess. I do a lot of freshwater fishing.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Awesome.
Guest: Carson (U of A student)
So in Oregon, there's like a lot of, I'm sure Pacific Northwest is known for a lot of beautiful lakes, ponds, rivers, anything you can find, it's probably going to have some beautiful trout or bass in it. And I love spending time just hiking up, going to find a spot on my own, I like, prefer to do it alone and go out and enjoy it.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
I love to hike. I never became a big fisherman, but I did get to do some when I was in Alaska. My brother-in-law used to live in Alaska. Yeah, Craig Alaska is outside Ketchikan on Prince of Wales island. So it's similar weather to Seattle. They get like 90 inches of rain a year.
Guest: Carson (U of A student)
Wow.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
They don't get almost any snow.
Guest: Carson (U of A student)
Sure. That's similar to where very much like the Northwest.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Before that, he lived in Nme, which is the complete opposite. But that's another story. And how about yourself?
Guest: Mikayla Pappas (U of A student)
This will be kind of a long-winded answer, just because it's kind of broad, but I just love being in nature, hiking, travel. I love meeting people from new cultures. I actually studied abroad in Costa Rica this past summer, and will be returning this winter break. So excited to be by the beach and with the animals.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Well, that will be fun. Well, thank you both for carving out a few minutes. I appreciate you doing this. Thanks, Carson. Thank you, Mikayla.
Guest: Mikayla Pappas (U of A student)
Thank you so much for having us.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Alrighty. Well, I have here with me the team from Utah Valley. Go, Utah, right? So why don't we start with having each of you introduce yourselves. Who you are?
Guest: Mo (Utah Valley student)
I'm Mo Dotson.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Mo Dotson.
Guest: Zach (Utah Valley student)
I'm Zack Merrill.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Zack Merrill.
Guest: Christian (Utah Valley student)
I'm Christian Lair.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Christian Lair.
Guest: Christian (Utah Valley student)
Yeah.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Well, thank you for joining me. And I know all three of you competed in the team competition, so why don't we start? Christian, tell me a little bit. What was the experience like for you competing today?
Guest: Christian (Utah Valley student)
It was pretty challenging. There were quite a few times where I looked at a problem, I read the question, and it felt kind of overwhelming, like, how would I do this? But as I spoke with the team, I was able to actually figure it out, and it felt pretty satisfying actually pulling these answers and being able to solve these really difficult questions.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Cool. How about yourself, Mo? What was it like for you?
Guest: Mo (Utah Valley student)
It was really fun. I know, they went to most of the training sessions, I missed a few, so I feel like they know more of the functions than I do. But I feel like if you can understand the logic behind the question, you can actually kind of pick through it and still solve it without using the equations, which is really fun. And I've gotten pretty good at that.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Yeah, a lot of it is definitely logic. If you know your way around Excel, you know logic, you don't always necessarily have to know the financial formula. You can often find other ways to solve things. It's a good point. How about yourself?
Guest: Zach (Utah Valley student)
Yeah, similar. It was fun being able to take a problem, kind of split it up and to think of how to do it, but then sometimes you just hit a wall, you hit a block. And so it was nice just being right next to each other, be like, Christian, how do I do this? And we were able to just help each other out.
So, yeah, for me, my favorite part was the collaboration, just interacting.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
I would have liked to have that. The one time I competed, I stayed at the bottom of the leaders board. Just pretty much bombed it. So you guys did really good. I did come in fourth. Unfortunately, there were only four…
Guest: Mo (Utah Valley student)
No one has to know.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Yeah, well, they do know.
Okay, so next question for you is how do you think this will help you guys in your career? Like, just doing the Excel and learning it.
Guest: Mo (Utah Valley student)
For one it's an amazing resume builder. For starters, I get to come out here and meet all these people and get to work with my team, which are also my friends. I get to make friends that are maybe doing the similar thing that I'm doing in college and I get to make a bunch of good connections and learn a lot about Excel and just learn how to collaborate with people.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Yeah. I wish I had had something like this when I was in college. It would have been great. I barely touched Excel in college. It wasn't really until after grad school that I started to really learn Excel. How about yourself?
Guest: Zach (Utah Valley student)
Yeah. For me, the biggest pull for it was kind of enhancing my financial and numbers thinking because I am a finance major and so getting into like, I want to get into investing in venture capital, that kind of, and so this was something that I was like, oh, this would be very valuable for me in the future. Like just being able to work with numbers to understand the logic behind it, kind of like you mentioned, I think is so important. So it's going to be very helpful in the future.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Yeah, definitely. If you're looking to investment, venture capital, any of those types of things, you'll spend a lot of time in Excel, for sure.
How about you?
Guest: Christian (Utah Valley student)
Yeah. For me, one thing, my previous CFO, he was a wizard at Excel. That's what I say. He could literally just solve everything and have all the functions just connect together. And I wanted to be able to have that kind of skill set, especially since I saw how valuable and how much time it saved on a lot of mundane tasks.
And so being part of this competition really helps me to develop those skills necessary and enhance it, I feel like. So that way I'm not quite a wizard yet, but I'm a sorcerer's apprentice right here.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
That's great. When you see somebody that can just master Excel and you watch things they do, it's always like, oh, wow, you can do all that in Excel? And it really is amazing when you go into work how much you can help you automate things. I learned late Power query and I remember when I first learned it, it saved me just so much time. I became the data guy who could run all the reporting and give people what they wanted and automate it and streamline it. And it was amazing how much of a difference it made, so I really encourage you to keep that going, it's a great skill to have.
So two more questions here. First one is we're going to ask you something you're interested in outside of school, outside of Excel, like a hobby or passion. We'll start with you on this one.
Guest: Zach (Utah Valley student)
Thank you. I love art, so painting, going to art galleries, anything within the arts realm I really admire.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Cool.
Guest: Christian (Utah Valley student)
I'm kind of a giga nerd, so I play magic of gathering.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
There we go. How about yourself?
Guest: Mo (Utah Valley student)
Lately I've been really into culture and learning about other cultures and languages.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Cool. All right. And then if you get the opportunity, would you guys do this again?
Guest: Christian (Utah Valley student)
Oh, yeah.
Guest: Mo (Utah Valley student)
Hands down.
Guest: Mo (Utah Valley student)
Next year I graduate so I can't go.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
You're like, I want to, but I can't. Well, you know, you can go compete in the other Financial Modeling World Cup.
Guest: Zach (Utah Valley student)
There you go.
Guest: Mo (Utah Valley student)
Yay.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
You guys are gonna get a laugh out of this. So Diarmuid Early, the guy they refer to as the Baron James of Modeling. So David Brown was telling him about the college one and Diarmuid goes, so you only have to be enrolled in college. So you're telling me I could enroll in a junior college and compete and David's like, technically yes, but please don’t, like that wouldn’t be fair because he's a two-time World Champion, right? He's kind of teasing him.
Last one is, favorite function or feature in Excel. We'll start with you on this one.
Guest: Mo (Utah Valley student)
I like count IFs.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Count IFs. That's a good one.
Guest: Zach (Utah Valley student)
I like the one he likes but I'm going to choose a different one. I said this one earlier. I just like the Sum function. It's simple. I use it probably most frequently.
Guest: Christian (Utah Valley student)
I really just like Xlookups. They're really helpful and satisfying.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
I do like a good Xlookup. Well, thank you for joining me and great job on coming in forth you guys did really well. So congratulations.
Guest: Mo (Utah Valley student)
Thank you so much.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
Thanks.
Host: Paul Barnhurst
What a great opportunity it was to listen to all those people who took the time to invest in themselves and improve their Excel and their modeling skills. I love listening to the students, their passion, so young and just getting ready to tackle the world and sharing what they want to do, what they love about Excel, why they competed, how it helped them become better at Microsoft Excel.
So just as a reminder, Financial Modelers Corner is brought to you by FMI. If you're interested in taking the certification, you can always use the PODCAST code to get 15% off. Also, we're getting ready for the Financial Modeling World Cup to get underway. They're going to be going through their season this year for 2024. You can always sign up for that. I hope to compete in some of their events as well.
Thank you so much for joining me for this episode and I hope if you like Financial Modeler’s Corner, you'd be willing to give it a rating and a review on the platform of choice that you listen to Apple or Spotify. That really helps us grow the show.
And as always, please reach out if you have any comments, questions, guests, anything you'd like to share or like me to bring up on a future episode. Thanks!
Financial Modeler's Corner was brought to you by Financial Modeling Institute. Visit FMI at www.fminstitute.com/podcast and use code PODCAST to save 15% when you enroll in one of their accreditations today.